1860 vs 1851 Issues

[moose30273]

Question, I have a Uberti 1851 Navy which in the words of Mary Poppins is "Practically Perfect in Every Way". Never a misfire or jam from caps or anything. Out of the box the wedge was perfect, no adjustment was needed. SO I thought I needed a bigger gun. Bought an Uberti 1860 Army. Well as we know, sometimes you get a great gun and sometimes you get an OK one. Well the 1860 is just OK. It is accurate. However, I have been plagued by the cylinder jamming from spent caps. Some fall into the action, some drop between the hammer and the frame. Using Remington #10 caps which usually work great in anything cap and ball. Tonight I tried switching the Tresco nipples off of the Navy onto the Army. The problem improved but did not go away. Did my super Navy just spoil me or is there something here I am missing? Anything which would make the Army more prone to slinging spent caps into the action? The increased powder charge? Anyone out there have any ideas or cure, other than to buy a Remington.

 

[Zonie]

Have you tried twisting your wrist?

After firing and before cocking for the nest shot, twist your wrist so the gun is "laying sideways".
Then, cock the gun.

This usually helps throw the spent cap out and onto the ground rather than letting it fall down into the action.

 

[nkbj]

Moose, the only way to keep caps from getting down in the frame is to cock it over your head at a full gallop. But you have to wear a plaid shirt and white hat.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Next time one of those old black & white "B" westerns shows up on the tube, watch the 'posse scene' and you might notice many of those guys raise the pistol til it points almost vertical before cocking for the next shot. This, obviously, isn't necessary at all with a cartridge revolver but it seems to have been fairly common practice in the pre-1873 days for horse cavalry and many horseback shooters. Though I've never rad of it from period accounts, I'm beginning to think it was more common than we thought. Those actors in the 1920's & 30's knew many old cowboys and shootists and may have picked up the muzzle raising technique from them.

 

[dikman]

Son-of-a-gun! I'd noticed that "raising the pistol" thing, but thought it was just an affectation for the movie, but what you're saying actually makes lot of sense (from one who has mangled caps falling every which way!).

Bear in mind, though, at my range pointing the gun up into the air is heavily frowned upon, but "rolling" it is fine.

 

[hawkeye2]

Elmer Keith used to write about the Calvary using that technique to keep caps out of the action but I doubt many range officers would approve today and I often wonder how many guys in the back of the pack took a round ball to the head in a charge because of it.

As more powerful cartridge revolvers were developed and people realized how slow some of the older blackpowder rounds were the technique was continued as a way to add velocity to the projectile. It reached its peak in the 1940's as documented in the many B westerns. :grin:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I don't think the pistol muzzles were raised above about 60 degrees or so. Don't recall seeing one raised to vertical since above 45 degrees should cause a loose cap to fall back against the hammer and bounce out of the action. In many years of shooting Colt & Remington style percussion revolvers, I've only locked up an action twice. Once was during a 'bank robbing' reenactment in Fayetteville, Texas. I ran into the store across the street and borrowed their broom handle to tap out the wedge and get the cap out...quick assemble, tap in the wedge, "Thank you, Mam" and back into the action...which ended with me taking a tumble in the chat of the town square! I was young enough then to do the 'Bang! You're dead' with panache! Now I'd probably break a bone!! :wink: We also learned that if you fire a blank shot from an 1860 under the front door cover of a bank that it'll set off the alarm system that honks continually until somebody gets the bank manager down there on a Saturday...fortunately, he was about a block away showing his kids a handmade basket seller!!

 

[swathdiver]

As more powerful cartridge revolvers were developed and people realized how slow some of the older blackpowder rounds were the technique was continued as a way to add velocity to the projectile.

The .45 LC was more powerful as a black powder round than smokeless. What are you referring to?

 

[hawkeye2]

.45 Colt wasn't the only round out there. How about .38 and .41 colts, and there were a lot of .36 to .44 rimfires and other rounds too.

 

[Zonie]

"Twas" a joke.

As a kid watching those old B Westerns I always thought it looked like they were trying to pitch the bullet out of their guns at the bad guys.

Little did I suspect I might have been seeing some actual history but it could be true.

 

[cynthialee]

I was taught to cock a BP revolver like they do in the old black and white cowboy movies. Pretty much a rare thing for a cap to jam a revolver on me.
I do a little wrist pop thing as I cock and rise the barrel. Sends the caps away from the pistol.

 

[swathdiver]

"Twas" a joke.

As a kid watching those old B Westerns I always thought it looked like they were trying to pitch the bullet out of their guns at the bad guys.

Little did I suspect I might have been seeing some actual history but it could be true.

You mean when George "Gabby" Hayes is throwing/chopping his Peacemaker towards a bad guy as he fires it?

If so, that's what Elmer Keith describes as the fastest way to shoot in Sixguns.

 

[M. De Land]

Nah, that's what the bad guy always does after he shoots it dry 15 shots after he starts. Throws the gun! :rotf: MD

 

[hawkeye2]

Unbeknownst to him the good guy had a 16 shot revolver! :grin:

 

[wb78963]

There are two options to cure the cap jam problem.
Check the videos by Duelist 1954 because he has a couple of videos on curing most "cap sucking" which is when the safety slot in the hammer pulls the cap of the cone and drops it down the hammer channel. One is to try closing the safety notch in the hammer and JB weld it up and replace those POS original cones with Slix Shot nipples. Then use Remington #10 caps. Believe me nothing else works properly. You can try others like CCI #11 and RWS 1075 are good caps, but will not work on Slix shot nipples.

Find a gunsmith that will install a cap rake which is a pin in the hammer channel that the hammer straddles when firing and keeps the spent cap in the cone well so it can fall out when cocking for the next shot. Unfortunately the gunsmith that did my guns retired but there are a couple that do that kind of work.
All my Colt style cap guns are equipped with cap rakes and they work.
Remington and other makes I have not a clue. I shoot Colt replicas and have them all dialed in on target.
Hold Center
Bunk

 

[Stophel]

Before getting a cap rake, check the hammer nose and make sure there aren't any burrs or other ugliness there, and with a small stone or diamond file, gently knock off the sharp corners in the pin notch. See if that helps before going further.

 

[Stantheman86]

Every gun is an individual.....maybe the heavier charges of a .44 lend the gun to more cap sucking than a .36?

When I first fired my Uberti London Navy I had very little idea what I was doing , I poured empty 9mm cases filled with Pyrodex P into each chamber, used a felt wad and played with Buffalo Ballets and round balls. Nipples are the crappy factory ones and I used whatever caps I bought at the store. I fired it like I was used to with "unmentionable" single actions , just cocked and fired and had no cap jams.

My Dragoon will get 2 cap jams per cylinder if you don't flick it to the right and even then it still will.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

"Twas" a joke.

As a kid watching those old B Westerns I always thought it looked like they were trying to pitch the bullet out of their guns at the bad guys.

Little did I suspect I might have been seeing some actual history but it could be true.

Yes, indeed. That's actually how it was done from a galloping horse. Try holding steady on target while bouncing. The "throw" provided a momentary alignment.

 

[William P Sepessy]

There are two options to cure the cap jam problem.
Check the videos by Duelist 1954 because he has a couple of videos on curing most "cap sucking" which is when the safety slot in the hammer pulls the cap of the cone and drops it down the hammer channel. One is to try closing the safety notch in the hammer and JB weld it up and replace those POS original cones with Slix Shot nipples. Then use Remington #10 caps. Believe me nothing else works properly. You can try others like CCI #11 and RWS 1075 are good caps, but will not work on Slix shot nipples.

Find a gunsmith that will install a cap rake which is a pin in the hammer channel that the hammer straddles when firing and keeps the spent cap in the cone well so it can fall out when cocking for the next shot. Unfortunately the gunsmith that did my guns retired but there are a couple that do that kind of work.
All my Colt style cap guns are equipped with cap rakes and they work.
Remington and other makes I have not a clue. I shoot Colt replicas and have them all dialed in on target.
Hold Center
Bunk

That pretty much sums it up. In the meantime, try cocking the gun with the muzzle pointing slightly DOWN(not at your feet) instead of up. I was surprised at how much difference that made on a stock, untouched gun. At some point, you will have to follow the above stated advise as it is that darn safety notch and rough hammer face that is causing you grief.

 

[Bad Karma]

Elmer Keith used to write about the Calvary using that technique to keep caps out of the action but I doubt many range officers would approve today and I often wonder how many guys in the back of the pack took a round ball to the head in a charge because of it.

As more powerful cartridge revolvers were developed and people realized how slow some of the older blackpowder rounds were the technique was continued as a way to add velocity to the projectile. It reached its peak in the 1940's as documented in the many B westerns. :grin:

I imagine a good baseball pitcher could add a few fps using this technique... hitting anything that way could be the larger problem.