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1853 enfield [repro]

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jan buck

40 Cal.
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in the future i want to buy an 1853 enfield or 1861 springfield reproduction. don't care about pc and all that, i shoot and hunt with my rifles.
armi sport/euroarms??? i have looked at james river ect. and just looking for one to play with.
i had a zouave but sold it.[euroarms]. was a good rifle but shot a foot high. thanks.
 
Besides personal preference, you should also consider things like twist rate and sights. I don't know about the Springfield, or the specs of Euroarms guns, but I have an ArmiSport 1853 Enfield. It has a 1:48 twist. I believe this can also vary by the year of manufacture, as the twist rate has sometimes been changed over the years. I don't know what year mine was made, I got it used at a gun shop.

I also prefer the Enfield's sights over the Springfield's. But again, that's a matter of personal preference. Here are the sights on mine:

IMG_1606.jpg


IMG_1608.jpg


IMG_1590.jpg
 
man i'm drool'in! thanks so much for posting pics. exactly what i'm looking for. :hatsoff:
 
Good question. Commercial made bullets are a hit-and-miss proposition (literally). I need to find a mould for the right bullet and the correct sizer. I haven't had time to mess with it for a while as I've got several other projects going on currently.
 
Over the weekend I shot one in an n-ssa skirmish. I used the lyman old style mini and sized it to 576. I hit targets with it at 50 and 100 yards with 45 grains of 3f. Its an armisport. It wasnt the most accurate gun on the line but out of the box accuracy is good I think.
 
chopper said:
in the future i want to buy an 1853 enfield or 1861 springfield reproduction. don't care about pc and all that, i shoot and hunt with my rifles.
armi sport/euroarms??? i have looked at james river ect. and just looking for one to play with.
i had a zouave but sold it.[euroarms]. was a good rifle but shot a foot high. thanks.


Some skirmishers prefer the '61 or '63 Springfield because the Enfield stock profile is tough on the cheekbone. It's not unusual for a Civil War era rifle or rifled musket to shoot high. The Enfield will probably shoot high as well.

Duane
 
SWITCHED TO a 61 for skirmishing. the enfield was ok when i was only shooting musket but when I thru in the musketoon for carbine. after 2 days of shooting my face could not handle the pounding it got from the streight stocks.
both shoot better than i do.
 
I was re-reading your original post and came to the part about not caring about being PC. Now that's fine, but in this case it might not be the best way to go, because the best '53 out there is the most PC, the British made Parker-Hale. It isn't just the most correct historically speaking, it has the best components, a beautiful lock and a barrel of match quality. The sights are first rate and altogether this is the finest rifle-musket you can buy. Being made to the old specs, they are lighter than the Italian repos which all seem to be alot heavier.

They do tend to be a little more expensive than a new Italian version, but in these troubled economical times, bargains can be found. I would not part with mine for twice what they go for now.

Most correct copies of rifle muskets will shoot high at close range. Once you've learned your gun and load, you will be amazed by the accuracy capabilities of these fine firearms and you will understand why a good shot was so lethal with one of them at very long ranges.

The Parker-Hales have the original style rifling and a much slower rate of twist which complements the accuracy potential. I have never found the stock design inclined to inflict discomfort. With the the correct load, recoil is so mild that I would think that one would have to be very recoil sensitive indeed to be bothered by it. If anything, the Enfield's slightly straighter stock profile should soften recoil somewhat. In any case, it shouldn't be a problem.
 
Russ
what load are you shooting??
Over time I used 2 diffrent load started w/ 48 of 3fffg w/ a P-H stile minnie in both the 53 and the musketoon then switched to the hodgens w/ 42 grn of 3fffg. after 85+ round on a saturday. Sunday was not much fun w/ the streight stock :shake:
I can shoot the 61 and my sons CS Richmond all weekend w/ no problems at the end of sundays musket match.. even did it once w/ a broken tooth don't think I would have if shooting a 53.
Some guys say raise the front sight and flip the ladder up helps get you off the stock. thus you don't take as much of a beating. don't know never tried it.
 
I use the Lyman 575-213 mold. It is rated to throw a 510 grain Minie, but mine are a little heavier. I use the standard load of 68 grains of powder and after experimenting I've settled on GOEX FFg. I have also tried some heavier Minies from the Enfield version of this mold and like them better as they shoot to the sights at 100 yards or more. Casting your own bullets is the only way to insure consistent quality, ie: weight, undamaged skirts etc. Lube is important, and I use a beeswax and tallow lube that has always worked well.

I've never experienced any comb bite from my '53, so I've never tried the sight trick. If it helps, then use it, but I'd be concerned that at varying ranges the sights might be off.
 
Russ T Frizzen said:
The Parker-Hales have the original style rifling and a much slower rate of twist which complements the accuracy potential.

The Parker-Hale P/53 Enfield was made with two rifling twists: 1 in 78 as per the original specification and 1 in 48. The 1 in 48 is a modern hybrid and was not used in the original P/53 Rifle Musket.

David
 
Thank you, David. Mine has the slower twist, and I've often wondered if that is why I don't have the same accuracy problems that so many others are plagued by. I think many shooters use a very light Minie, perhaps to reduce recoil, and end up with a stubby and unstable projectile. The heavier and longer Minie has always been a first rate performer for me and with the 2 and 1/2 dram charge pleasant to shoot for hours. I haven't found fouling to be a problem either.

What sort of load do you use in the 1853 Enfield in England? Do you have any information on the original lube used back in the service period of these rifles. I seem to recall that the Sepoy Rebellion was caused, at least in part, by misconceptions about the materials in the lube. Dan
 
Russ T Frizzen said:
What sort of load do you use in the 1853 Enfield in England? Do you have any information on the original lube used back in the service period of these rifles. I seem to recall that the Sepoy Rebellion was caused, at least in part, by misconceptions about the materials in the lube. Dan

There are four P-H [not the post P-H versions, held to be somewhat inferior] in our club, and all of us use the same load - 2.5 drams of fine rifle powder or the modern-day equivalant. Some use Elephant powder, some use Swiss, but we all use around the 65grain mark. The bullet that works best in mine is a 2thou undersized Lyman, lubed with a mix of 50/50 beeswax and Neat's foot oil. It sets into a medium hard lubricant that suits my guns well, or seems to. Most commercially-available stuff that we get over here, made in the USA, costs more ££ than they do $$$, and like most folks these days, I'm averse to firing money down-range that I don't have to.

The Sepoy Rebellion was an artifically induced mutiny helped on by rumours that the new-fangled cartridges were lubricated using pig fat - that upset the Moslems - or beef fat - that upset the Hindus. Needless to say, the fire was fanned by troublemakers of both religious pursuasions.

The fact of the matter is that, as far as my research goes, neither of these two fats were actually used to make the cartridge lube, which most historians agree was actually mutton tallow - totally inoffensive to all concerned.

Incidentally, the P-H guns are not, strictly speaking, copies. P-H 'borrowed' the original master gauges, jigs and patterns from the MoD Pattern Room to set up their tooling. Every metal part was identical is every respect to the original sealed pattern musket/rifle held by the MoD Pattern Room, now part of the Royal Armouries in Leeds.

The late and much-missed Herbie Woodend, Curator and principal collector for the Pattern Room and a good personal friend, spent far too much of his precious time and energy trying to get them back from the fading P-H company, and I was in the office back there in Nottingham, in the late 1990's, when they finally, and grudgingly, got returned, apparently without a word of thanks for the almost twenty-year loan of a large engineer's chest of priceless historical tools.

tac
 
this is a little off topic, but would it be safe to fire 60 grains of 3f out of the Enfield or an armi sport Richmond?
 
logan said:
this is a little off topic, but would it be safe to fire 60 grains of 3f out of the Enfield or an armi sport Richmond?

The military load is 2.5 drams - that's 68gr of what is now approximately FFg in .58 cal rifle or musket. I've been shooting precisely this load since 1980 in my P-H three-band P53.

As far as I can see, from those guns I have looked at, the Armi-Sport version of the P53 is at least as well set up to shoot the service load as my P-H - the other gun, I admit, is totally unknown to me.

tac
 
Russ T Frizzen said:
I was re-reading your original post and came to the part about not caring about being PC. Now that's fine, but in this case it might not be the best way to go, because the best '53 out there is the most PC, the British made Parker-Hale. It isn't just the most correct historically speaking, it has the best components, a beautiful lock and a barrel of match quality. The sights are first rate and altogether this is the finest rifle-musket you can buy. Being made to the old specs, they are lighter than the Italian repos which all seem to be alot heavier.

They do tend to be a little more expensive than a new Italian version, but in these troubled economical times, bargains can be found. I would not part with mine for twice what they go for now.

Most correct copies of rifle muskets will shoot high at close range. Once you've learned your gun and load, you will be amazed by the accuracy capabilities of these fine firearms and you will understand why a good shot was so lethal with one of them at very long ranges.

The Parker-Hales have the original style rifling and a much slower rate of twist which complements the accuracy potential. I have never found the stock design inclined to inflict discomfort. With the the correct load, recoil is so mild that I would think that one would have to be very recoil sensitive indeed to be bothered by it. If anything, the Enfield's slightly straighter stock profile should soften recoil somewhat. In any case, it shouldn't be a problem.
Russ, i agree with your post. wish i could afford a PH. i have read about these rifles in the past and agree they are probably the best. i am very interested in the civil war, mainly the iron brigade. i would like a musket to shoot and have fun with thats all. how much is a good used PH going for?
 
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