Kibler side effect?

Wirehair said:

Read the question in post #1and the answer in post #3. We're now arguing just for the sake of arguing.

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19 pages of....

One thing about CNC is after an 8 - 10 hour day. Running the same parts over an over again. Does get pretty boring. Load part on pallet changer. Set down push button an watch the machine do its thing. Part gets finished, unload part then load next one.
Their amazing machines that eliminate a lot of other individuals work operations. Because it does all the steps with one machine.
But to run the ones where I worked some parts took 8 hours to finish. Boring....!
Now how Jim figured it all out is for me. Truly an astonishing skill level. Brilliant would be a better word.
Like I've said before Kibler kits are the best on the market period...End of story...

It's easy to poo poo something like CNC, but our standard of living would be very different without it. For better or for worse... One thing for sure, once you get the taste, there's no moving back.

The next step is a robot to do the repetitive, boring stuff.

wiscoaster said:

The next step is a robot to do the repetitive, boring stuff.

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They have these already. And inspection robots also.

I'll put out a video of our newest machine soon. Bars feed in one end and finished parts flow out of a conveyor on the other end.

I'll take quality control and repeatable precision any day. Not everyone is created equal... in skills, talent, and patience. Just because you played high school football does not equate to you being able to demand an NFL team sign you.

I do minor wood-working and fell into a couple dozen Hawken stocks which are factory seconds from TC. I am toying with them to learn more about finishing and fitting. Some are pretty bad but I want to fit out the better ones to be functional.

Either way, a CNC job like Kibler offers is very appealing to me and I would be just as proud to finish a kit to a high degree, regardless of how much inletting and chisel time I put in. I don't have the tools, skills or patience to start with a hunk of wood and I'm OK with that.

So many people b*tch about freedom of choice, well, here you go... like anything, if you don't like it, change the channel... don't buy it, move on and don't degrade people with differing interests and opinions.

I cannot wait to convince the wife that I must absolutely have one of Jim's kits. The minute that 'short' version hits the market, I will buy one. Meantime, I'll keep working on my patience to not put a Woodsrunner in my 'cart'.... yet.

I wish I had a dollar for every Kibler Kit I put in the cart just to see what it felt like.....

If money were no object I would add a .45 SMR, and probably a Woodsrunner in .50. And if they ever put out a fowler, thats a big HELL YEAH!!!!! Throw in a .32 for funsies, and I think I would be all done. I think.....

I’ve put together other kits as well as Kiblers for others. I felt just as good or better handing over the Kibler rifle. I have three myself. I can’t think of a better thing to hand down to a child interested in such things.

I have five Kibler rifles and the quality is there, so I know that Jim focuses on the processes. I for one, am glad that he also has a focus on profit. If he doesn't focus on profit, he would not be able to grow his business. IMHO, I not only think he is a master gun builder I think he is also a master business owner.

No one is knocking the Kibler quality. But a lot of us who like to build guns. Enjoy the hands on creating a gun or whatever from a chunk of wood. Seeing it transform with your own skill is very appealing to us.
It's called a challenge an can I do this..?
Like my wood working teacher said in High School.
" How do you know if you don't try...?"
I've certainly made my share of mistakes. But that's how I learn. To each their own... Deal with it...

I have built/assembled thirty plus guns in my life. Probably ten plus from parts and a blank piece of wood. Been there done that, and I find that I no longer get joy in doing so. But I do get joy from the instant gratification of getting a beautiful rifle in a weekend that would have taken me many hours to have built in my youth. I believe that the Kibler products fill a void for those just starting out that want to develop their skills and for those of us that no longer can put out the quality of product that we once could, due to age limitations or desire. We all have our desires and are free to shop where we want and spend our money with the supplier that we want.

BeardedGunsmith said:

I acknowledge that cnc has a place in society amd that it's commonly used in day to day life. I just personally think it takes less skill than what I do and don't see how anyone can get gratification from button pushing, but then again as you stated, you only care about profits so I reckon it doesn't matter to you. Just my opinion.

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Not so.
Jim is an artist, craftsman, engineer, and businessman and family man. All are important parts of the same individual.
You should visit his place of business and see how it is growing. He is providing jobs for over a score of people while providing quality kits and parts for our hobby. Not an easy accomplishment.

mikesto44 said:

No one is knocking the Kibler quality. But a lot of us who like to build guns. Enjoy the hands on creating a gun or whatever from a chunk of wood. Seeing it transform with your own skill is very appealing to us.
It's called a challenge an can I do this..?
Like my wood working teacher said in High School.
" How do you know if you don't try...?"
I've certainly made my share of mistakes. But that's how I learn. To each their own... Deal with it...

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Kibler longrifles offers flintlocks , parts, and supplies that you can order . Supply your own rifle blank and you can scratch build your own work of art.
There is no reason you have to buy a CNC stock, if you don't want to.

mikesto44 said:

But a lot of us who like to build guns. Enjoy the hands on creating a gun or whatever from a chunk of wood.

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I must have missed the part where you forged the barrel, lock and all the rest of the parts. Oh wait all those parts were made on machines, by someone else. I see no difference in having the starting stock made the same way.

James Kibler said:

I'll put out a video of our newest machine soon. Bars feed in one end and finished parts flow out of a conveyor on the other end.

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Thank you, Jim.

I know, I'm not the only one who will appreciate that.

Assembling one of rifles, has got me one step closer to building a rifle, I'm by no means ready yet. I'll Assemble a few more then give it a shot.

Thanks, for all that you do for the muzzleloading community.

Take Care Stay Safe

bpd303 please reread what I said... I stated that IF I could make the barrel and lock I would...BUT AT 73 years of age...I'm probably not going to do it....
You people who want a kit..Buy the dam thing..myself an the rest DON'T care what you do..We just like to make our own stuff...It's a hobby of mine an I enjoy challenging myself..
I put three of his kits together..their great but not for me..

Jim Kibler himself posted on this thread that he makes "non customizable kits". That statement reminds me of what Henry Ford said about the Model T," you can have any color you want as long as it is black". That went on to make Ford one of the leading companies in the auto industry. But even back then there were people who didn't want a black Model T and there were other companies who were more than happy to offer cars in other colors and they also became successful. If you like Kibler kits then buy them He needs loyal customers to be successful. I don't see the idea some have that he is going to put the custom builders out of business because they offer something you can't get from Kibler. If you like Pennsylvania style rifles their are other companies that make nice kits for that. I prefer to make rifles in a style I like which he doesn't offer, no big deal I buy a stock I can modify to get what I want. To shoot my best a stock built for an average shooter doesn't fit me so I make rifles that fit me. Every rifle I make is one of a kind, I have no desire to have a rifle that is just like thousands of others.

#blackpowderbill said:

Pedersoli didn't start out to make SMR.
The video is 10 years old.
Anyone can go to YouTube and look at CNC stock and firearm making.
Jim, you're one of thousands that uses a CNC process to make stocks and parts.
Now you may be one of the few in the United States that's turning out an automated machined"long rifles".
BP Shooters win international matches with Pedersoli rifles.
80% of the BP rifles than end up on my bench with issues are owner related.

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I think it’s a matter of availability for most shooters in other countries.
Importing a gun or even gun parts from the US to other countries is not easy, if not flat-out illegal, and if legal, by the time the foreign customer pays all the related import fees, taxes, permit costs, and dealer/importer mark-up, a gun like Kibler makes could easily cost double or triple what they cost here.