puzzling 18th-century shot terms

There is a puzzle about the history of bird shot which has bugged me for a long time. The earliest info I’m aware of about making shot is that of Prince Rupert of Germany. In 1663 he devised a method of pouring molten lead through a sort of sieve a few feet into water to make improved shot. The next real advance I’m aware of is the discovery by James Watt of Bristol, England, that by doing essentially the same thing but letting the lead fall for many feet, perfectly spherical shot could be made. He patented that discovery in 1782, and the first shot tower was built there in that year So far, so good. But...I have found quite a few references in the early literature which I can’t sort out, such a these”¦

1734 drop shot, bullets, Carolina guns
1746 high Bristol and drop shot
1760 very large drop shot , high Bristol ditto
1767 bullets, bristol and bird shot,
1767 Bristol and drop shot
1790 very much wounded on the left side of the Back with Bristol Shot

What was ”˜drop shot’ in 1734?
What do these early references mean by ”˜drop shot’ before 1780, or so?
Is that just their term for Rupert shot?
What is the significance of “high Bristol shot” in 1746? No high towers then.
What is the difference between Bristol and drop shot in 1767?
What was the difference between Rupert shot and Bristol shot before 1782?

Does anyone have any info which might help straighten this out?

Spence

It is my understanding that prior to Rupert shot, shot was cut and then rounded off in a tumbler. how old are the sources? if they are sources written later in the 18th century that referenced early 18th century shot, maybe they referred to cut shot as Bristol shot, Rupert shot or drop shot because that is what they associated it with?

Spence, this may shed some light.
http://brisray.com/bristol/blead1.htm

Thanks, Bill. That is a very interesting article, and I'm glad to get it for my file. Unfortunately, it doesn't answer any of my questions about the terms used before the Watts process came into use.

As an aside, anyone traveling in the area of Wythe County, VA, shouldn't miss seeing the shot tower at Shot Tower Historical State Park. It's a fascinating place.

Spence

Pure conjecture here, but patenting a device or product doesn't mean that you are the inventor. It just means you are the first to patent it. Copycats got rich by patenting things that were already in existence.
For example, a returning soldier from The Great War (WWI) saw Arabs on the Mediterranean coast soaking nuts in the brine of tidal pools. He came back, patented the "salted in the shell" process that had been used in North Africa for centuries.

Fantastic thread. Keep it coming!

Patocazador said:

Pure conjecture here, but patenting a device or product doesn't mean that you are the inventor.

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Watts began modifying his house into a shot tower about 7 years before he obtained his patent, and as far as I know there was never any question that he devised the process.

Of course, from 1663, when Prince Rupert figured out his method, molten lead was being dropped into water to make shot. The difference was the height from which it was dropped. Makes me wonder when the concept of surface tension was understood, and if Watts understood why his process worked, or if he just figure it out empirically.

Spence

Armories had towers long before Watts.... :hmm:

Terms in the old literature are frequently confusing in this way. For instance, after Watts patented his shot method, he sold 'patent shot'. But, at about the same time, late 1780s, Wm. Cleator was writing about what he called 'patent milled shot'.

"The patent milled shot is said to be made in the following manner. Sheets of lead, whose thickness corresponds with the size of the shot required, are cut into square stripes by a machine, and thus again into small pieces that are cubes; or of the form of a die. A great quantity of these little cubes are put into a large hollow iron cylinder, which is mounted horizontally and turned by a winch; when by their friction against one another and against the sides of the cylinder, they are rendered perfectly round and very smooth. The other patent shot, is cast in moulds, in the same way as bullets are."

And he mentions a third 'patent shot', which is moulded. So, if they say 'patent shot', which do they mean?

Spence

A correction...in my first post I said James Watts patented the shot tower process of making shot. I lied. It was William Watts. James Watts is famous for his work in developing early steam engines, of course.

Mea culpa.

Spence

'patent shot', which do they mean?

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We tend to think of patents as being "all encompassing" ....they are not, it depends on what the actual patent says...
An automobile for example may contain thousands of patents....

Since lead mining and manufacture goes back to the Roman period in Bristol, England - I wonder if "Bristol Shot" simply meant shot that was manufactured there no matter how it was made?

There is also the phrase "Shipshape and in Bristol Fashion" that refers to everything being "squared away" or correct and good. This phrase seems to have been no earlier than Circa 1803, BUT could the term "Bristol" have been used as an adjective of good quality for some time prior to that and especially for shot?

Gus

Products were often given names involving the place where they were made.....I think "High Bristol" refers to the place where the shot was made and also the type or quality.

High usually meaning, of better quality.

Spence,

Do you have any 17th or early 18th century references for "Rupert Shot" by that name or description?

I wonder if most people even remembered or knew it was Prince Rupert who invented "Drop Shot" by the end of the first quarter of the 18th century?

Gus

Artificer said:

Do you have any 17th or early 18th century references for "Rupert Shot" by that name or description?

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No, I don't, but I'd like to find one. Rupert was German, made his discovery there, and it's hard to know how much was known about his development in the colonies or even in England. As you suggest, I assume they are talking about Rupert shot when they say drop shot.

The excavation report of the Dog River site in Alabama says the most abundant type of shot found was Rupert shot, 10,726, but also..."We also recovered 1,557 drop shot, 176 buckshot, and 36 musket balls." They state that the drop shot they are speaking of was the type developed by Watts in 1769. So it must have been possible to discern between the two.

Spence

Artificer said:

Since lead mining and manufacture goes back to the Roman period in Bristol, England - I wonder if "Bristol Shot" simply meant shot that was manufactured there no matter how it was made?

There is also the phrase "Shipshape and Bristol Fashion" that refers to everything being "squared away" or correct and good. This phrase seems to have been no earlier than Circa 1803, BUT could the term "Bristol" have been used as an adjective of good quality for some time prior to that and especially for shot?

Gus

Click to expand...

The term comes from the fact that Bristol, aside from having been a centre for shipping trade since medieval times, was also the home of the Royal Dockyards, where many ships of the Nelsonian-era Royal Navy were built. The term came into use to imply that whatever it had been applied to was made to the same high standards as those required of the nation's navy - correctly-done, and exactly as per plan.

tac

Rupert shot was also called "Hail-shot".

George said:

Rupert was German, made his discovery there, and it's hard to know how much was known about his development in the colonies or even in England. As you suggest, I assume they are talking about Rupert shot when they say drop shot.
Spence

Click to expand...

Prince Rupert of the Rhine was actually not German, but Bohemian, having been born in Prague, then capital of the Palatinate of Bohemia. He had a varied career. He was a soldier from a young age, fighting against Spain in the Netherlands during the Eighty Years' War (1568”“1648), and against the Holy Roman Emperor in Germany during the Thirty Years' War (1618”“48). Aged 23, he was appointed commander of the Royalist cavalry during the English Civil War (1642”“46), becoming the archetypal Cavalier of the war and ultimately the senior Royalist general. He surrendered after the fall of Bristol and was banished from England. He served under Louis XIV of France against Spain, and then as a Royalist privateer in the Caribbean. Following the Restoration in 1660, Rupert returned to England, becoming a senior British naval commander during the Second and Third Anglo-Dutch wars, engaging in scientific invention, art, and serving as the first Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company. Rupert died in England in 1682, aged 62.

Rupert is considered to have been a quick-thinking and energetic cavalry general, but ultimately undermined by his youthful impatience in dealing with his peers during the Civil War. In the Interregnum, Rupert continued the conflict against Parliament by sea from the Mediterranean to the Caribbean, showing considerable persistence in the face of adversity. As the head of the Royal Navy in his later years, he showed greater maturity and made impressive and long-lasting contributions to the Royal Navy's doctrine and development. As a colonial governor, Rupert shaped the political geography of modern Canada””Rupert's Land was named in his honour””and he played a role in the early African slave trade. Rupert's varied and numerous scientific and administrative interests combined with his considerable artistic skills made him one of the more colourful individuals of the Restoration period.

So it was during his time in England that he actually engaged his mind in inventiveness, not in Germany.

tac

Thanks, tac, I feel much more educated. Didn't realize all that about him.

Spence

In "Firearms on the Frontier: Guns at Fort Michillimackinac: 1715-1781", by T. M. Hamilton, a noted archeologist, the author describes what Rupert shot looks like when correctly made.

"Since not enough time elapsed in the drop to form a perfect sphere, the resulting shot is slightly ovoid in cross-section and has a slight dimple on the more flattened side."

At the Michillimackinac site only two types of shot were found, cast and Rupert. He says, "Though drop shot, invented in 1769, could well be present, none was observed in the samples submitted."

The archeologists seem to use 1769 as the date at which Watts drop shot was beginning to replace Rupert shot. According to generally accepted history, Watts began modifying his house to make the first shot tower in 1775, but he must have been doing some work before that. They also generally use two separate terms, Rupert shot and drop shot, not the same thing. It would be nice if we knew whether the people of the time did the same.

Spence