The BIGGEST Bore Rifle????

Friends,

Discussing "The Colonel Mayes", a 19 pound, Irish-made, SxS 8-bore percussion double-rifle (on another thread) "got me to wondering" about what was the BIGGEST conventional sporting rifle ever built/used for African or Asian big-game hunting and what the "usual load" for such a "shoulder-fired cannon" was.
(W.D.M. "Karamoja" Bell knew an elephant hunter who hunted with a ML 4-bore DR and said that he had "seen a 2-bore" single-barrel, in what is now Kenya. - Btw, Bell opined that he believed that the 4-bore was "too much gun except in the most exceptional of circumstance", though COL Bell routinely used a 7mm Mauser for hunting ELEPHANT "on control".)

yours, satx

I saw a single shot ML with a 1" bore at a gun show display in Wasilla, AK last fall. The owner had used it in Africa to hunt cape buffalo and hippo, he had the head/skulls on display along with the gun and pictures of the hunt. He used a Conical lead bullet of 1950 grs and a 250 gr charge of 2F powder. the gun weight was 32 pounds. I cant even imagine the recoil of such a gun, the owner said it was not bad but not a fun gun to shoot more than a few rounds in a day. In comparison my 2" bore cannon shoots an 8oz ball and with 300 grs of cannon powder will throw that ball 1 mile, the barrel weight is 120 lbs and recoils back 3 feet.

Don't recall anything bigger than 2 bore for the ham-fisted and steel shouldered. There may have been larger made for any number of silly reasons but I think 1.325" bore generally anything that's trudged the earth since the last great extinction! And in the FWIW dept., W.D.M. 'Karamojo' Bell actually preferred the .256 Rigby (we know it as the 6.5mm Mannlicher)over the 7mm Mauser. Mostly because like all his favorites, .256, .275 & .318, it was available in long, jacketed(solids) bullets of moderate velocity which he much favored over the "expanding abominations". He also favored the brain or high-neck shot and was an expert at it, even going so far as to saw an elephant's skull in half to be absolutely sure of the brain's precise location. "Nothing succeeds like success"!

Having actually fired "The Colonel Mayes" (a double-8 bore), I cannot imagine how UN-pleasant that shooting a 2-bore must be.
(Must have been something like "going a few rounds" with "The Cut and Shoot, Texas Brawler" & one-time heavyweight boxer, ROY HARRIS, who used to knock rodeo bulls off their feet with one punch.)

yours, satx

Saw a double 2 bore for sale years ago, think in Shotgun News. When I did the quicky math comparison to see what ball size would fit like 00 buck in a 12 gauge, three to a layer...the answer came back .58"! I put the paper down, that hurts just to think about!

The Gun Works produces a 2 bore barrel ($600 if you want one).

Somehow the thought of a 1/2 pound ball (3500 grains) over of 800-900 grains of powder (for a target load) is just plain scary. At that rate you would get maybe 7 shots out of a pound of powder - unless you lost your shoulder first.

Steve Zihn custom built a 2 bore. With a 36" barrel and it weighed in at 32 pounds - before it was loaded.

On the plus side, for guys who want extra "thump" it is capable of developing 17,500 ft pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Maybe just a touch too much for tree rats :rotf:

galamb said:

The Gun Works produces a 2 bore barrel ($600 if you want one).
Maybe just a touch too much for tree rats :rotf:

Click to expand...

Two thoughts:
1)Before they changed hands, October Country used to make and sell 2, 4 & 8 bore single rifles for the "I Gotta Have One Of Those" crowd. Even made a fine double 8 bore rifle with a picture of a customer with a lion laying at his feet...seems that's where he actually landed after the charge and a ball from nose to bung hole! Were it me, he'd have slid right on by on the layer of brown stuff! :haha:

2)Not too big if you're intention is to shoot the tree out from around the limb chicken! :rotf:

RotflmRao!!!

yours, satx

Sir Samuel White Baker used a 2 bore in the Sudan in the 1860s that the Arabs christened "son of a cannon". He had a 4 bore also and his smallest guns were 10 gauges.

Back in about 1968, A friend got one of the old smooth bore 4 gauge elephant guns that were made in Belgium and sold in Africa. Chuck hammered out two lead balls that approximately fit the bore. We took turns holding the gun while the other one lit the fuse being held down by the frizzen. The lock would not spark. It did knock me down, but I think Chuch kept his feet. I don't remember how much powder we used, but we were not shy with it.

who remembers these?

I used to see those listed. Think I might have seen one in a gun shop I used to haunt. Wasn't too sure how strong the barrel was. IIRC, they were one inch bores.

frogwalking said:

who remembers these?

Click to expand...

Me!...back in those days the story going round was that the natives would run under the elephant, poke that butt plate into the ground, yank the trigger and try to run out from under the elephant before it toppled over! some folks will believe anything! Those are the guns Stoeger imported from Liege and peddled in the early muzzleloading trade. Frizzen hardness was kind of an on-again/off-again thing but many had been made with old locks and parts left over from as early as the Napoleonic era. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not. The one I loved was the "musket" with the 51" barrel and would like to find one of those just to salvage the barrel.

That is more kinetic energy than the .50 BMG produces. The 650gr M2 Ball ammo produces around 12,500 ft. lbs. of energy.

Only thing missing on those things is the carriage and wheels! But, jeepers, they are interesting toys! :wink: :haha:

Gouing in the oppisite direction,Sam Falada wrote about hunting elephants with a .58 rifle loaded with 180 grains 3f and a 650 grain minnie. He says it shot through 18 inchs of bone, but was on par with a 45-70 to shoot.
On you-tube there is a video of folks shooting a .58 suppositoy gun and all falling down. I think thats what would happen to me if I tried one of those 4 or 2 gage hand cannons(not to be confused with the other hand cannons)

" ----- the owner said that it was not bad but it wasn't fun to shoot----" = I would guess that that comment is the understatement of the month.

yours, satx

Forsyth regularly used a 4-bore. :shocked2:

His minimum for deer type animals was a 14 bore.

LD

COL Jim Corbett, the famous British hunter of man-eaters & noted author, retold the "rather amusing story" from the 1800s of a "Mogul nobleman", who was hunting tigers from the back of an elephant with a "large bore rifle".
(The bore of the ML double-rifle is unreported.- Also, I seriously doubt that "The nobleman" found the incident "amusing".)

Corbett said that when the hunter fired the left barrel that BOTH barrels fired, "killing the tiger, frightening the elephant into running away and tumbling the hunter from his lofty perch".
(i.e., off the elephant).
The account says that "the hunter, bruised in body & spirit, then took away his quarry in two pieces".

yours, satx

Do not forget Colin Stolzer http://www.stolzergunsmithing.com/

I believe he is a member here.
Some of his guns, no, ALL of his guns are real eye openers. :shocked2:

Fyi, I tried "googling" Mr. Stolder without success. = PM me his "contact info", please.

yours, satx