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Login Name Post: Investarms .50 gone crazy???        (Topic#239179)
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-13-09 11:10 PM - Post#771305    


I have a six year old .50 cal Hawken style Investarms(Cabela's) that went from being a tack driver to about the only thing I can make it hit consistently is the ground. I have always used 70 gr ffg goex or 65 pyrodex with a .015 T/C patch and have ran several hundred rounds through it. The gun will not hold a group at all. The only thing I can think of is the barrel might be pitted. Had rust in it after it sat up during the spring and summer. I always clean it good with hot water. I think I coated it with WD40 inside and out before putting it away for the off season. I read somewhere after the fact that Wd40 and pyrodex don't mix. Maybe I ruined my barrel?? I have tryed different charges and all kinds and thickness of patches all with same result. It will shoot 180gr bullets with plasic sabots just fine. I just dont like to shoot them, though. A prb is what I want to shoot they are so much fun.
Maybe I just need me one of them GM 1:70 barrels. What has happened to my rifle?? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

 
Jethro224 
Moderator
Posts: 7428
Jethro224
10-13-09 11:59 PM - Post#771318    

    In response to stumppjumper

Could it be that the rifling is fouled with plastic and ruining you PRB groups? You might try scrubbing it out with a scotchbrite pad or 4 ought steel wool. That should get rid of any rust or plastic fouling.



 
gmww 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4692
gmww
10-14-09 12:31 AM - Post#771322    

    In response to stumppjumper

In addition to what was just suggested, you could also scrub it with JB bore shine. A light abrasive paste on a tight patch. You will be able to feel if the pits are causing the patch to stick.

 
Musketman 
Passed On
Posts: 10652
10-14-09 05:29 AM - Post#771354    

    In response to gmww

  • gmww Said:
In addition to what was just suggested, you could also scrub it with JB bore shine. A light abrasive paste on a tight patch. You will be able to feel if the pits are causing the patch to stick.



If you cannot get any JB bore shine, white toothpaste will work, it is a light abrasive that rinses clean with water.


 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-14-09 08:28 AM - Post#771393    

    In response to Musketman

Ok thanks for the tips I'll try polishing it up and we'll see what happens. I'll get back with yall.

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
10-14-09 07:38 PM - Post#771578    

    In response to stumppjumper

You might also want to give the bore a bath in something like Shooter's Choice gun cleaner, which is good for shotgun wad fouling and lead removal, PRIOR to any other treatments suggested. The reason that I say this is from first person accounts with both of my Lyman (Investarms) Trade Rifles. I shoot both PRB's and 370 grain Maxi-Balls through them, depending upon the need at the time. When the bore leads-up a little, the groups widen-up! After a treatment with a good brushing with Shooter's Choice on the brush, followed by the regular application of Barricade prior to storage, when the rifle comes back out, it shoots just where the sights were previously set to .

Get the plastic out of your gun and it will again drive tacks

Dave

 
gmww 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4692
gmww
10-14-09 11:27 PM - Post#771634    

    In response to smokin .50

I had a similar problem years ago with my Investarms barrel. It was because I was using strictly bore butter to season the barrel. Don't even go there with that theory.

 
Kirrmeister 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2178
10-15-09 03:08 PM - Post#771775    

    In response to stumppjumper

Hello from Germany!

These rifles are very common here in cal. 45, but it is the same construction. In most cases it helps to check the barrel bedding and the lugs, because the barrel is to hard in the stock, when you now what I mean and so it couldn't swing constant.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 
smokin .50 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4471
smokin .50
10-16-09 01:22 PM - Post#772044    

    In response to gmww

  • gmww Said:
I had a similar problem years ago with my Investarms barrel. It was because I was using strictly bore butter to season the barrel. Don't even go there with that theory.



Not quite sure that I get your drift. Do you mean for me not to talk about bore butter, or do you mean to say that my experience with my two rifles is somehow flawed? Please understand, I just got out of the hospital last week and I'm not fully "up-to-snuff" yet. I just want to know where your head is at.

Sincerely,

Dave

P.S.: Just had another thought: I routinely inspect and change-out my nipples on a regular basis. Uneven wear or a worn-out nipple will cause intermittent loss of pressure and will sometimes start to cause the hammer to come back towards half-cock, especially with heavy charges. This unevenness will definitely have an effect on the size of the groups...a new nipple will close-up the "shotgun pattern"

 
R.M. 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1092
R.M.
10-16-09 01:38 PM - Post#772049    

    In response to smokin .50

Modern thinking is that steel barrels, as opposed to the old iron barrels don't "Season".

 
buckknife 
40 Cal.
Posts: 471
buckknife
10-16-09 01:54 PM - Post#772054    

    In response to stumppjumper

Could also be the pyrodex.I had one of them modern new fangeled muzzleloaders that would drive em at 100 yards with open sights,a month later i couldnt even hardly hit paper at 50 yards.
Ended up being the pryro poop.Ive had triple seven that is 3 years old and it was still good.Why the pryrodex went south i dont know but i aint never used it since.
I only shoot blackpowder and a flinter now but if i had a caplock and didnt have black it would use tripple seven.Smokes like crazy and always seems reliable.Also more powerfull so you use less.
If it does it with your goex also then like they say a good cleaning mite do it.

 
gmww 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4692
gmww
10-16-09 02:31 PM - Post#772066    

    In response to smokin .50

I think it was TC who put forth that we could season our barrels with bore butter like a cast iron skillet. Unfortunately, all it did in my barrel and others was build up crud for a lack of a better word and cause accuracy to go down. It wasn't until I vigorously removed all that stuff with JB bore shine as well as other stuff did my accuracy return. I basically took my barrel back down to bare metal.

As said earlier modern steel does not do well with this idea.

Edit: BTW I was actually adding to the original posters post. Your's was the last one when I answered so it looks like I was responding to you. Sorry.

Edited by gmww on 10-16-09 02:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-16-09 04:08 PM - Post#772098    

    In response to gmww

When I think of it I never shot any plastic through my gun until after I started having trouble with my groups to get myself out of a pinch just before the deer season. Anyway, I did scrub the bore down real good with a brush, and even made a few passes with some valve lapping compound on a patch, and re brushed and cleaned. and I am going to give that a shot. I do know that my nipple has not the greatest threads on it so that could have some presure loss effect, but sometimes I shoot with with teflon tape on the threads( a great trick for waterproofing for a damp Louisiana hunt). I really hate using sabots so I hope to figure something out. By the way, why has real Bp gotten so hard to find all of a sudden? I cant find it anywhere. Had to by pyrodex and I agree that that stuff is crap.

Edited by stumppjumper on 10-16-09 04:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-16-09 04:10 PM - Post#772100    

    In response to gmww

  • gmww Said:
I had a similar problem years ago with my Investarms barrel. It was because I was using strictly bore butter to season the barrel. Don't even go there with that theory.



Hmmm.
What fixed your problem? Maybe I have the same one?

 
gmww 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4692
gmww
10-16-09 04:59 PM - Post#772116    

    In response to stumppjumper

What fixed it for me was to get it back to bare metal. I used a lot of elbow grease. Just don't over do it.

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-16-09 06:08 PM - Post#772139    

    In response to gmww

I'll look into the JB boreshine.

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-19-09 06:16 PM - Post#773103    

    In response to stumppjumper

Just got through shooting First three rounds, Prb/70 grs. pyrodex shot nearly hole for hole at 25 yards, wiping 4 patches after each shot. Moved out to 50 yards patterns about anywhere from 9" high to about 9" low. This is crazy and 5 days till season opens.





















 
gmww 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4692
gmww
10-19-09 06:35 PM - Post#773110    

    In response to stumppjumper

What are you shooting. RB? Conical? If RB what patch size and ball size? If conical which one?

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-22-09 08:24 PM - Post#774274    

    In response to gmww

.015 patch and .490 ball. Scrubbed on it today with a copper scouring pad. That makes three polish/cleanings since Ive shot it last. I hate pyrodex. I don't think you can get this stuff out of your barrel.

 
bull3540 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1952
bull3540
10-22-09 08:44 PM - Post#774286    

    In response to stumppjumper

How old is your can of pyrodex?

 
Beau49 
32 Cal.
Posts: 11
10-22-09 09:42 PM - Post#774303    

    In response to bull3540

I tried Pyrodex in the past and will never use it again.
I only use Black Powder now with no problems, also seasoned my bore with Bore Butter.
It shoots pretty clean for about 15 shots before I have to swab it out, swab patches are treated with Windex

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-23-09 07:02 AM - Post#774376    

    In response to bull3540

  • bull3540 Said:
How old is your can of pyrodex?



Bought it on clearance last year.

 
stumppjumper 
32 Cal.
Posts: 10
10-23-09 07:05 AM - Post#774378    

    In response to Beau49

  • Beau49 Said:
I tried Pyrodex in the past and will never use it again.
I only use Black Powder now with no problems, also seasoned my bore with Bore Butter.
It shoots pretty clean for about 15 shots before I have to swab it out, swab patches are treated with Windex



AS soon as I can get my hands on some real blackpowder I'll never go back to "Rustodex". I miss the smoke and smell of the real thing and never had any problems until I used the fake stuff.

 
bull3540 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1952
bull3540
10-23-09 08:34 PM - Post#774578    

    In response to stumppjumper

That could be your problem then, as pyrodex starts to loose potency as it ages. The can might have been a year old when you bought it on clearance and is giving you inconsistent velocities altering the point of impact.

 
Hacksaw 
45 Cal.
Posts: 701
Hacksaw
10-23-09 08:38 PM - Post#774581    

    In response to stumppjumper

Never have used anything but BP in my side hammers. But have been told pyrodex shelf life is about a year. So maybe you need to buy BP or a fresh can of pyrodex. I had a 54 and I have a 58 Cabela's and have had no problems. Both were shooters.

 
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