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Login Name Post: Green River Rifle Works        (Topic#202150)
SPUD 
40 Cal.
Posts: 188
SPUD
01-16-07 08:04 AM - Post#358819    


I have a .40cal grrw ohio valley pattern flinter in my collection since the early 80's how common is this rifle today? it is by far the best handling and most accurate BP rifle I have ever owned. SPUD

 
Anonymous 
01-16-07 10:04 AM - Post#358860    

    In response to SPUD

I don't know how many were made, but they are out of business for many years now. The old Green River barrels were famous for their accuracy and me and several others I know still treasure theirs as the most accurate rifles they still own. Mine is a .45 PA rifle I made with components and a GR barrel.

Edited by Mike Roberts on 01-16-07 10:06 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Rich Pierce 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4061
01-16-07 11:30 AM - Post#358891    

    In response to Mike Roberts

Uncommon, maybe this is a custom gun made with one of their excellent barrels?

 
SPUD 
40 Cal.
Posts: 188
SPUD
01-16-07 01:22 PM - Post#358931    

    In response to Rich Pierce

It could be just that Rich,I bought the rifle from Anson Morgan at the kenockee trading post in Avoca,Mi.in the 80,s

Edited by SPUD on 01-16-07 01:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
George F. 
40 Cal.
Posts: 278
01-16-07 02:17 PM - Post#358947    

    In response to SPUD

My first Rifle I built was with a 13/16" .40 cal. 42" Green River Barrel. By far the best shooting I ever did was with that gun. Sadly, I mistreated the barrel, and have neglected it for 10 years. I believe it had a twist rate of 1 in 56" Wish I could turn back the clock. ...George F.

 
8905c 
36 Cal.
Posts: 99
01-16-07 08:28 PM - Post#359136    

    In response to George F.

I have a TC Cherokee that I built from a kit and installed a Green River .40 cal. barrel. This was probably about 1986-87. The company was on it's last leg at the time, and I had a great deal of difficulty obtaining the barrel. Would this have been the same Green River Rifle Works? The rifle shoots well and was probably my best shooter until I got my Southern Mountain rifle with a .38 cal Ed Rayl barrel. Now the .38 is my most accurate rifle.
8905c

 
windwalker_au 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1105
01-17-07 01:45 AM - Post#359264    

    In response to SPUD

spud this just for every one intrest there is a green
river rifle works here in australia south australia to be more corect it is run by a man called allan vaisham he builds very nice guns i have handeled and shot some of the guns he has made he dose exelant work for what he sells them for.take a look at his site.Green River Rifle Works Australia


bernie

Edited by windwalker_au on 01-17-07 01:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
arquebus 
45 Cal.
Posts: 794
01-17-07 10:27 AM - Post#359337    

    In response to windwalker_au

Yes, that's right! I've known Alan for a number of years from when I lived in Adelaide. Green River Rifle Works was originally in Roosevelt, Utah & was bought out by another Australian named Mal Wade who took the company, & one of the U.S. employees (Neil Fields), back to Australia. I believe Alan Vaisham worked for Mal at that time as a gunmaker & later bought the GRRW(Aust) name, etc. from him & went out on his own, that must be about 20 years ago. Alan has a very good reputation amongst the Australian BP shooters & makes some great guns, I particularly remember a fine little matchlock he was shooting at the MLAIC World Champs. in Adelaide in 2000.

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
01-18-07 10:33 PM - Post#360146    

    In response to 8905c

I talked with Neill Fields today about three Hawkens I am building and showed him a printout of this thread. He said the GRRW went out of business in 1981-82. He was working there then. The name was sold to this firm is Australia and Neill went there and worked about one year. He speaks highly of Allan Vaisham.

But the rifling machinery did not go there. Rich Hoch of Montrose, CO bought if first as I remember. Then Neill thought it went to Las Vegas. I think it next went to Michigan. Track of the Wolf was selling custom made barrels, not named Green River, but I think their catalog said it was this tooling. This was maybe 10 - 12 years ago. I bought one barrel and found a loose spot in the bore and sent it back. I don't know where the machinery is now.

I have a Green River .40 caliber barrel I found about a year ago and made into a Hawken squirrel rifle, and I think the twist is 1-48. That's what Neill remembers it to be. He said they are nearer a .39 caliber rather than a true .40. Both lands and grooves were cut, I think he said, and mine is a little on the tight side. Shoots great, even .380 and .390 balls.

 
THELIZARD 
36 Cal.
Posts: 53
01-19-07 11:11 AM - Post#360334    

    In response to Herb

Herb...Neil has got it right as he should know...Doesn't mention that GRRW spend several years in Grand Junction, Colorado at two different locations...Spent some enjoyable hours with the guys (Zane Briggs) at the GJ shop...

I watched barrels being made by two different methods...First was bore it, cut the grooves, then reindex the same cutter and cut the tops of the lands until the bore cleaned up...Second was to bore it, then I believe a hard bore size tool piece was drawn thru the bore several times and ironed out the boring chatter, then the grooves were cut...May have cut the grooves before the bore smoothing...This is why you could have a high or low spot in the barrel using the second method even though the borre looked great...They normally used round barrel stock and then planed it centered around the bore after rifling to the octagon shape, but also use ready made octagon stock in conventional sizes, called these their standard barrels...

The first was the premo style and you can see the difference by looking thru the barrel...Tops of the lands will have slight scraper marks parallel with the lands as the second method will have marks if any parallel with the bore...

The Best...The Lizard...

 
THELIZARD 
36 Cal.
Posts: 53
01-19-07 11:31 AM - Post#360344    

    In response to Herb

Herb...Barrels could be ordered in any twist you wanted depending on the use...My 40's were alawys 1 in 48 I believe...Bore diameters varied some do to how much cleanup was require by the top land cutting method...Could go from below 40 to way above, but they seemed to have a cut off at about .020 are real close or just a shape larger than .40 as I use a .395 round ball..Believe Zane made 6 or 8 40's in a batch and I picked out the two I wanted..

Have several GRRW barrels left...Two are 54's but a .530 swaged round ball will not go down the bore, so they are probaly closer to 52 cal...Must have not taken alot to clean up the bores!

The Best...The Lizard...

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
01-19-07 10:49 PM - Post#360638    

    In response to THELIZARD

Lizard- Thanks for all that good info. I remembered the GRRW machinery going to Montrose, Neill didn't say that. I was wrong, but I was close, Grand Junction is nearby.

I have a Stylus 3 Streamlight that I look into bores with. I filed the rotary turn-switch down to .398 diameter so it will drop into a .40 bore. It won't go into my .40 Green River. It does go into 3 Green Mountain bores loosely, maybe a little snugger into a Douglas, and a little closer fit yet into a Rice barrel.

Just checked my new GRRW .58 1-60 bore, it is very smooth and has very fine striations on both the lands and the grooves, if I look hard. And my .54 GRRW bore I'm building now is the same. I have not slugged the bore, so I don't know its exact diameter. Another .54 GRRW Hawken I built up is also very smooth, and uses a .530 ball. I'll have to study them closer to see how the marks go.

 
THELIZARD 
36 Cal.
Posts: 53
01-20-07 11:27 AM - Post#360783    

    In response to Herb

Herb...Only problems I ever had with Green River barrels was the very sharp edges on the lands and the poor crowning jobs...Both are pretty easy to fix with a few home grown tools...

If you shorten one of their barrels, suggest you take off the amount you need to at the breech end...This will retain the natural choke at the muzzle that was formed during the rifling process...I know it is a hassel to rethread the breech end, but why cut off a "good thing" so to speak...You can put the choke back in by top lapping from the breech end or add it to a barrel with no choke, again with a few tools and some hand work...Good article in "Muzzle Loading Shooting and Winning with the Champions" by Don Davis on barrel lapping and reasons why...

The interior barrel marks I talked about are very evident in the cut lands barrels, with the swaged land top barrels being very smooth, almost mirror smooth...In any case will be a challange to see if the barrel is breeched...All Green Rivers will be seven lands and grooves, the best in my opinion will have lands narrower than the grooves, don't know if you can get them too narrow, prefer them 1/2 the groove width, but those are far between...

The Best...The Lizard...



 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
01-20-07 11:16 PM - Post#361049    

    In response to THELIZARD

The .54 Green River barrel I am building into a Kit Carson Hawken now is .530. Top of a land to the bottom of the opposite groove mikes .542 with my calipers. I have a .54 Orion barrel that shoots good groups and is has striations across the lands. I never did lap it, nor need to.

 
THELIZARD 
36 Cal.
Posts: 53
01-21-07 10:59 AM - Post#361205    

    In response to Herb

Herb..Yea, .530 is about right for a 54 Cal Green River....Your rifling also appears to have some depth to it, enough for round ball shooting which it was always intended for...
The marks accross the lands on your other shooter are probably from the reaming of the bore to size and uniformity after rough drilling...
If it shoots for you that's all that is necessary...
What the lapping does other then putting a choke into it if you want to, is make the bore uniform from breech to muzzle...Takes out the highs and lows and some rough if present...After lapping, the next shots out of the rifle up to thousands will be the same...No need to brake in a lapped barrel...
If you get some patch cutting, look at the crown pretty close, ofter times the cutting takes place at the loading stage of the whole works...I use anykind of lube except spit!... ...The Lizard...

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
01-21-07 12:53 PM - Post#361251    

    In response to THELIZARD

I don't use any kind of lube including spit. In about 8 percent relative humidity, shooting maybe up to 40 shots at a session, I got very tired of soaking patches. So I never use spit. And up at Bridger before I knew better, I was using some grease lube. About four or five shots is all that I could shoot because of fouling. Stuck a ball and pulled the end off my ramrod trying to pull the ball. The CO2 discharger wouldn't work. Had to go home and pull the breech plug to get that ball out. Cured me of grease lubes.

I finally hit on using the Murphy Oil Soap, rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide cleaning solution as a patch lube. I use half MOS and half 91% isopropyl alcohol, wet the pre cut patches and keep them in a cap tin. Have used this for thousands of rounds in maybe 50 rifles over the last 10 years. It works for me.

 
THELIZARD 
36 Cal.
Posts: 53
01-22-07 09:32 PM - Post#361933    

    In response to Herb

Have used the Murhy soap, alchol, and peroxide setup for many years too...Works good...Also like Hoppies #9 Black powder solv....Often use straight alchol for cleaning up....Yea, I only use a water base water pump grease when I'm in the hunting mode...First loaded shot and then the four/five in the loading block...Other solvents/lubes just dry out in the block over a few days....The Lizard...

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
01-22-07 11:45 PM - Post#361993    

    In response to THELIZARD

I need to make a loading block and then I'd have to use a different lube. Water pump grease, eh? I can work with my cap tin on a rabbit hunt with frequent follow up shots, or at another rabbit, but it is slow. I need to use a loading block.

 
THELIZARD 
36 Cal.
Posts: 53
01-25-07 11:27 AM - Post#363224    

    In response to Herb

Herb....Email me your address and I'll send you a tin of the grease to try...It's kind if waxy compared to automotive type stuff... ...The Lizard...

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
01-25-07 10:47 PM - Post#363600    

    In response to THELIZARD

Lizard- I can't E-mail you, you have no address shown in your profile. I don't know how to contact you without it. Look at my profile, my E-mail address is there. Thanks, I'd like to try it.

 
Doc Carver 
32 Cal.
Posts: 11
01-31-07 09:22 PM - Post#366529    

    In response to Herb

Back in 1980, I went into town to buy a suit for work and had to pass Roy Alexander & Sons Gunsmiths in Perth Western Australia and they had a USA made GRRW half-stock Leman rifle in .54 cal. So I went home with the rifle and no suit. I still have that rifle and it is a great shooter. Since that time, Alan Vaisham from GRRW Australia has made me a J & S Hawkin full stock flintlock rifle in .50 cal, a copy of Jim Bridger’s halfstock Hawkin rifle in .54 cal and a Jacob Dickert Lancaster County Pennsylvania longrifle. These are all superb rifles. I am getting back into muzzlelaoding again after 13 years and I am looking forward to shooting these rifles again. One of these days I will photograph my guns and post them on the net.

Regards

Doc Carver
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

 
fw 
69 Cal.
Posts: 3257
02-01-07 05:55 AM - Post#366621    

    In response to Doc Carver

REALLY A GOOD IDEA,the pic's of Hawkens , lets start another Hawken pic site, I know Claude will love me for this one....if ya was around here a year ago ect(after 2000 views he'd cut it off because it was gumming up the works.) FRED

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
02-01-07 10:37 PM - Post#367045    

    In response to Doc Carver

Doc, you have some good guns!

 
Neely 
32 Cal.
Posts: 30
Neely
12-24-07 04:45 PM - Post#506747    

    In response to Herb

I better jump in here, I am relatively new to muzzleloaders, I started out with the Sharps rifles back 9 yrs. ago and while I still enjoy them I have fallen in luv with muzzleloaders.
I built one flintlock from TOW and it is a fine shooter.
Recently I purchased a .50 percussion half stock Leman GRRW with Neill Fields maker mark on it.
I took it to the range yesterday and the 1st shot @ 50 yrds hit dead bulls-eye. So besides being a beautiful rifle it is a great shooter.
I will be on the scout for any rifle Mr. Fields made.

 
Herb 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1737
Herb
12-24-07 11:41 PM - Post#507000    

    In response to Neely

Neill is a good friend of mine and a great builder. He has now built more than 400 muzzleloading firearms. Tomorrow we go over into Deep Creek for Xmas day dinner with a couple of other friends who also worked at the old Green River Rifle Works. Too much snow and too cold to do any shooting, but we have frequent shoots.

 
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