cleaning your rifle has any one used steam?

Gday all,
I was wondering if any one has used steam to clean there black powder rifles.
After shooting last saturday I got home and cleaned my musketoon in my wifes laundery trough ( well it seemed like a good idea to me, filled it up about 4 inches soapy water, pulled the hot water hose off the washing machine and run the hot water down the barrel etc, you get the idea) this was all good to my missus caught me.
Anyway i was thinking, i could make up a brass rod with a few small holes drilled into it at various locations and attatch it to a steamer (brought or one i could make myself) place the barrel in a wooden vice pointing up wards and drop the steaming rod down the barrel, i figure the hot steam would disolve all the nasties in the barrel and the manure would fall out through the nipple hole, whilst I had a cuppa after a hard days shooting. Oh and the missus wouldnt get shirty. I figure letting this process go for about 15-20 mins run a jig through the barrel a few times with some barrel solvent etc and bobs ya uncle clean barrel and less mess in the laundery.
Your thoughts and opinions appreciated. especially about why not a good idea, as i am new to this black powder scene and dont want to damage my enfield.
cheers
rob

I find tepid water to work perfectly. I think hot water makes the barrel rust.

Swampman said:

I find tepid water to work perfectly. I think hot water makes the barrel rust.

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I agree. I would think steam could also cause some flash rusting plus it would set up the potential for some nasty burns.

My theory is:

Flush the barrel with lots of boiling water and clean it fast, the heat drys it almost immediatly, then I swab it with an oily patch, which is prepared and ready to go, before it start with the water.

I use one of those steamers on my pistols mainly.
Muzzleblast came out with a topic for cleaners. They were using Holy Cow concetrated cleaner that you can get at any Meijers store or online. I used that with my steamer on my pistol and it took half the time to clean and looked like I put it through the dishwasher, I was impressed.
I have used the steamer on my rifles but I find it works the the best when you need to get into hard to reach places like locks and pistol mechanisms. For my rifles I just use hot soapy water and I will be trying out this Holy cow to see if it helps. :v

I use warm soapy water (dish soap :thumbsup: ) to clean my barrels with. When finished I run hot tap water in the barrel and the metal drys fast and then I use bore butter to coat the barrel in and I use WD-40 outside all over. Been doing it this way for over 25 years and my barrels are looking new.

The problem with steam is it's capability to displace oil so readily.
Example- the junction of a patent breech or drum on a barrel. Oil that protects against corrosion has been applied and has been drawn into these tiny places, preventing oxidation. Steam will violate these areas, displace the oil, and corrosion will ensue.
Tepid or merely warm water will not penetrate these tiny spaces if oil is present.
In my opinion, this is not worth the perceived "benefits" of cleaning with steam.
All it will take to ruin your day will be to see a reddish moss growing like a champ from under your sights and breechplug.

i got the wife steamed when i clean my barrels in the bathroom sink, does that count! :grin:

Greetings All,

If you are a regular reader on this forum, you will know that I am adamently opposed to using hot soapy water to clean black powder rifle barrels.

My reasons for this opposition were formed back more years than I care to remember and reinforced by an article written by John Edward Clark for MUZZLE LOADER MAGAZINE back in the 1980's. What follows are excerts from that article.

"All too often I hear the words, 'Use warm soapy water.......... Follow it with hot water to dry it out. My friend, it makes me shudder to think of all the fine guns being ruined by such a foolhardy practice. On the other hand, as a merchant I should be grateful for sooner than later, these shooters will be coming in looking for new barrels because of loss of accurracy due to accelerated wear.

"How does this happen you ask? Simply put, heat, moisture, and oxygen applied to bare steel will produce a nice brown color; RUST. This rust is actually particles of steel removed from the surface of the steel in the form of an oxide. leaving small pits in the surface, These pits now help trap black powder residue which is basically a sulphur salt and as such is hygroscopic,(readily absorbing moisture from the atmosphere). This forms sulphuric acid which makes lunch of your bore. Try this test; pour hot water down the clean bore, wait until dry. Run a dry patch through and look at the nice brown stain on the patch. The net result of all of this corrosion is rapid wear of the sharp edges of the rifling, contributing to the loss of accuracy about 25-30% faster than if the barrel had been treated properly."

"With all the developements in black powder solvents, one wonders why so many 'expert writers'proliferate the clean her out with soap and water method. Could it be that they do not read the advertisements in their own publications? All black powder solvents contain some water. That's true. but they also have rust inhibitors and oils..........., it does not make sense to acceelerate bore wear by pouring in a mild acid in the form of soapy water. Detergent soaps are mild forms of acid". ...................
....................................................................................................

Your rifles, pistols, and shotguns deserve the best. After all you paid good money for them and the very least you can do is clean them properly with a view to preserving their accuracy as long as possible."

I am Sirs,
Your Most Humble & Obedient
Servant.

John Edward Clark

Mr. Clark's observations are the same as mine. Granted there are shooters who will never change their mind about using soap and water to clean their black powder firearms. I have no argument with them. They have the right to ruin a good barrel. They paid for it.

For those who have a more open mind, the above information might prove useful.

As for me, rebuttal arguments against my views are not neccesary. All readers are free to take it or leave it[the above information] as they see fit.

With all of that being said, I will address the subject of steam cleaning a muzzle loading shoulder arm.

My friend Eugene(Gene) Robinsin was one of the armours and extras on the set of the filming of the 2004 movie, THE ALAMO.

It was necessary to clean the ML weapons as quickly as possible at the end of a shooting day.
Fifty to seventy arms needed to be cleaned and preserved on a regular basis. One night, Gene and his two man crew had over 150 arms to clean.

Form the beginning, Gene rented and used an industrial steam cleaner and while the metal was still hot, sprayed the metal inside and out with a rust inhibitor.

Exceptions were the fine custom rifles made for the main actors and the personal arms of the extras.

With best regards,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions, More research is necessary i think.
I will let you know which way i go.
Cheers
Rob

He-Bear said:

Muzzleblast came out with a topic for cleaners. They were using Holy Cow concetrated cleaner that you can get at any Meijers store or online. I will be trying out this Holy cow to see if it helps. :v

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He-Bear - Let us know how Holy Cow works. My order came in but haven't had a chance to try it out.

always looking for a better mousetrap I found if it is a gun I clean with water or water and soap, after I rinse it I use a blowdryer to dry it thourgholy and then oil it.

I then use the blowdryer to get the oil into hard to reach places like the trigger group.

Cleaning my 1858 revolver has got a lot easier since I bought the dryer

Hey, I have been shooting and cleaning black powder guns for a long time. This does not mean that I can not learn a better way to do something. This form is the reason I am here, to learn more. If someone thinks they have a better way to clean a barrel let it out. I have been using warm soapy water for a long time and I do get brown out of the barrel after it drys out for a while, very light. But I aways clean it out again with bore butter till it is clean and then leave a coating in the barrel when finished. Plus I Always take out the Nipple and clean. At the range I use number 13 solvent. I have some guns that cost a couple of bucks. They look great in and out. I have a bore light and check them often.
BUT I still need to know if their is a better way.
:hmm:

John I know a dish detergents have sodium in them, but what about Murphy's Oil Soap? :v

I used Holy cow on my rifle and it worked good.
I also have a big pot that I used to stain my powder horns. The pot is stainless steal and ever since then it had that stain in it that I could not get out. I would use it to clean my revolvers and use steam and still the stain would not come out. When I tried Holy cow concentrated cleaner to clean my revolver in the pot the stain was gone after I cleaned up everthing, I was impressed.

Never heard of holy cow? Is a cleaner I can buy at the store?

Greeting Slamfire and All,

Wellllll....... That was a good question for which I had no answer. BUT looked on the back of a Murphy's Oil Soap bottle, found the following telephone number; 800 486 7627 and talked to a young man by the name of Jake. Just hung up the telephone (10:00 AM CST).

Here is a list of ingrediants im Murphy's Oil soap.

Water
Potassium Tall OIL Soap
Amine Oxide (for fraquance)
Potassium Hydroxide (to maintain the PH factor)
Hedta (an abbreviation for the two following
ingrediants)
Hydradoxyethyl
Tetra Acetic ACID
The Hedtra is used to "maintain freshness and clarity".

so Slamfire, it would appear that Murphy's Oil Soap does contain an acid.

A number of years back, I tried the old bore cleaning formula of Murphy's Oil Soap, Hydrogen Peroxide, and Alcohol. It did a great job of cleaning, but the bore was rusting faster than the old soap and water method. So after that one experience, it was back to my old standby, BLACK-SOLVE.

When I first started my ML shooting back in the early 1950,s none of the wonderful black powder cleaners were available. We all used the soap/water method, and we all complained about the bore rust stains.

Sometime in the mid to late 1960,s. BLACK-SOLVE made its way on the market, but was hard to find locally in West Texas. For many of us (us few ML shooters that is) it was exactly what we were looking for. Then after T-C introduced their Thompson-Center Hawken Rifle (Yes, I bought one and gave it a try), Hoppes Number 9 Plus was introduced and was an immediate success AND was available just about everywhere. It was and is an excellant cleaner. Still ranks as great with me and is my number 2 choice of cleaners.

My reason(s) for preferring BLACK-SOLVE are defined in previous posting on this forum, if you care to look them up. If BLACK-SOLVE was not available,HOPPE'S No. 9 Plus were be the number one choice for me.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

John I use the Hoppes secondary after the main cleaning and use it if I shoot conicals. I also use it in the deep cleaning mode after many rounds and I actually want to put a brush though the bore. I do not use it on a regular basis.

If I'm shooting round ball the only thing dirtying the bore is powder residue and whatever ball lube you are using. No lead or copper or any of that.

I also just clean with T/C #13 then oil and the guns are fine as well.




I think it boils down to.... If you just clean lube and protect your rifles they will perform for you. Don't skimp on the oil, buy good stuff. Keep your rifles as dry when stored as you would powder. Almost all the suggested ways of cleaning I have tried have worked pretty good.

I walk over to the creek, dip some water with a tin cup and dump it down the bore. Cheapest BlackPowder solvent possible and works as well as all of the others.

"Let the rough end drag."

CS