why do we use wads in bp revolvers?

Why do we use felt wads? I have used them on occasion before because the people I shoot with sometimes do. Their reasons have been as follows...

1. lube/clean the bore every shot
2. take up extra space to bring ball closer to rifling
3. prevent chain fires

Im bored, drinking beer, and got to thinkin(bad combination right?); unless there is a better reason that I do not know about, none of these make much sense to me.

1. I dont think the wad has enough lube on it, or can be fitted tight enough to clean and lube the bore. Not only that, but any lube/cleaning that the wad does is after the ball, and is countered by the burning powder that follows it.

2. If using a 20grn charge of 3f in a M1858, it would take a lot of wads to move the ball to the top of the chamber being as they are only about 1/16" thick compressed. For filling the extra space in the cylinder, cornmeal seems like a better option.

3. if I am using a .454 ball in my 1858 and cutting a ring when I press it into the cylinder, a chain fire seems very unlikely.

So, if someone could discredit my thinking, or give me a good reason to use wads, I would appreciate it! in the meantime, I will continue browsing old posts.

I have entered a few bp pistol matches with my 1858 and have plans to enter more, so Im trying to read up and lean as much as I can in order to improve accuracy and find a good load combo that works for me.....

Back in the day, balls were loaded into the chamber without grease or wad. The tight seal prevents chainfires from the front. Properly fitting caps prevent chainfires from the back.

They do take up extra space. They do not have to be completely compressed to do so. Some people use two wads.

I guess how much they soften fouling depends on how much grease there is. It will melt/blast off the wad and get where it needs to be.

I personally don't use wads. I use overchamber grease sometimes.

I'll give you one GOOD reason;
If you don't slather Crisco (or equivalent) over the ball, you WILL experience a chainfire...sooner or later. A tight-fitting ball (shaving off a healthy ring of lead) will stave this off, but eventually, if you shoot much, you'll get 'got'.
The wads serve as a barrier between flame and powder. As you can imagine, a tight sealing ball is helpful, but not 'water-proof'.
Old-timers used grease, you can too. I usually use both, but have resorted to using only Crisco if I'm out of Wonder Wads.
They also serve to position the ball closer to the forcing cone on reduced charges.
So put down the beer and stop trying to think.

I used grease over the ball many years ago, when I lived up North. Worked fine, though it was a bit slow and messy. Now I live in the South, and grease melts and runs very quickly in our heat. Wads are simply easier and less of a mess, and do every bit as good a job in my experience.

Might not be the answer you were looking for, but that's why I use wads in my smokewagons.

CaptainKirk said:

I'll give you one GOOD reason;
If you don't slather Crisco (or equivalent) over the ball, you WILL experience a chainfire...sooner or later. A tight-fitting ball (shaving off a healthy ring of lead) will stave this off, but eventually, if you shoot much, you'll get 'got'.
The wads serve as a barrier between flame and powder. As you can imagine, a tight sealing ball is helpful, but not 'water-proof'.
Old-timers used grease, you can too. I usually use both, but have resorted to using only Crisco if I'm out of Wonder Wads.
They also serve to position the ball closer to the forcing cone on reduced charges.
So put down the beer and stop trying to think.

Click to expand...

I do use grease over the ball; i should have mentioned that. As far as flame getting around a tight fitting ball, I am going to take your word for it, and make sure to never forget grease on top! I just cant imagine a felt wad being any protection against a chain fire.

If your using a 20grn load, I have a feeling that it would take 4+ wonderwads to move the ball to the top of the cylinder? (could be wrong tho).

I use lube over the ball. 50/50 beeswax & tallow is somewhat less messy than plain crisco and stays put better. I apply with a popcycle stick.
Not all revolvers are equal. My old ASP 58 Remmy has tapered leads at the mouth of the cylinders.
A .451 ball does not shave lead, however it is swaged tight into the chamber by the loading lever. I cannot seat a .454 far enough to clear the forcing cone without stressing the manure out of the loading lever assembly.
The only chain fire I ever had was when I forgot to lube over the balls. Never used the wads under the ball, but have seen chain fires with those too. I think fire can come from either end of the cylinder.
Jon D

Norinco said:

Back in the day, balls were loaded into the chamber without grease or wad. The tight seal prevents chainfires from the front. Properly fitting caps prevent chainfires from the back.

They do take up extra space. They do not have to be completely compressed to do so. Some people use two wads.

I guess how much they soften fouling depends on how much grease there is. It will melt/blast off the wad and get where it needs to be.

I personally don't use wads. I use overchamber grease sometimes.

Click to expand...

Unlike you old-timers, I've only been shooting C&B handguns since around the late-sixties, and so I make no claim to be expert.

I don't use anything at all while I'm shooting, and I often shoot a couple of hundred ball in a session.

The last couple of cylinders I use a freely-available pharmaceutical skin-cream available over here and in Yoorup called E-45. It is a water-based emulsion, totally odourless, leaves no residue when cleaning and it takes all the manure with it when you wash it off.

It's also good to your hands, and being totally non-allergenic [it's used for reducing the symptoms of sundry skin complaints] simply softens the paws if you slathered it on all over.

In any case, W&nder-Wads or similar are sooooooooooo darned expensive over here that I'm totally agin paying 18-20c apeice for them.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Homesteader said:

I used grease over the ball many years ago, when I lived up North. Worked fine, though it was a bit slow and messy. Now I live in the South, and grease melts and runs very quickly in our heat. Wads are simply easier and less of a mess, and do every bit as good a job in my experience.

Might not be the answer you were looking for, but that's why I use wads in my smokewagons.

Click to expand...

I used grease myself when I first started down the path of the Dark Side many years ago!

Now I use strictly wads, namely Wonder-wads that are pre-lubed. And during the colder months especially, I open-up the tin foil package and pour the wads out onto a paper towel and give them all a heavy schmere of additional Bore Butter on one side, and back in the package they go! The additional lube keeps the fouling softer in the dry colder months :wink: .

The following is meant to be for everyone on this thread....

Now as to this Chain-Fire business:

I don't know how many of you folks on this Forum actually participate in some sort of organized league activity involving black powder arms. I can tell you that I belong to no less than THREE clubs that shoot the holy black, and EVERYONE uses the wonder-wads! Not a single issue with a Chain-Fire at ANY of the three Clubs for as long as can be remembered since everybody switched-over to using the wads! At the largest club, we have to have multiple Relays with (10) hand gunners on a common firing line in order to give all of the shooters a chance to engage their targets.

So I guess the wads work :idunno: :shocked2: and are therefore worth their weight in gold!

One more tip: If you want to use a little extra lube on the wads in the warmer weather, that works fine too! Just keep the "wet side" of the wad towards the balls. The fouling stays really soft and you can keep shooting long after those who don't use any form of lube have to quit :wink: .

Dave
I have between 500-1,000 revolver wads in my basement RIGHT NOW!

I've used lubricarted wads, but I prefer Mobil 1 synthetic grease. Not traditional, but it works.

I never use wads. It's a waste of time and money. I've shot thousands of shots in C&B revolvers with no problems.

I'd be willing to bet that chain fires come from loose caps.

Awesome responses everyone... many good points made.

Here is another thought, although slightly off topic.....

In a BP pistol competition: what about only loading one cylinder at a time and cleaning the bore after every shot as i would when shooting a single shot pistol? Kinda defeats the purpose of using a revolver, but if it improves accuracy, it might be worth doing in a competition. In the past, I have not cleaned the bore of my .44 at all during a 25 shot event.

I defenatly agree that wonder wads are too expensive.. If I go the wad route, I will probably try making my own.

I am willing to bet that most chainfires come from behind aswell, but as jon d stated, its happend to him before because of forgetting lube.

You can buy cheaper wads for a few dollars per hundred if you want them.

Norinco: are you sure about the lack of grease or wads in the old days? I know that 7 years after his death someone found Robert E. Lee's Colt 36 Navy and the ends of the chambers were sealed with what sounds like red wax. NOW...that may be because he was a general, would probably never fire his revolver but if he had to- then he wanted the chambers well sealed- which I guess they were because all SIX fired. Yep- no empty chamber for old R.E.L.
Elmer Keith said he cut wads from beat up old cowboy hats but he was a turn of the century guy however he was shooting original cap and ball guns- not replicas and someone must have told him how to load the pistol.
Finally- there are a few photos showing balls in the ends of a cap and ball pistol with obviously no grease or lube.
He had a big talk awhile back on some of this- I used to use Crisco but never checked the gun- I'd just shoot all the chambers at the range but some guys said the crisco is too soft and melts out after a shot or two.
I think there was a loading manual from the Army during the Civil War- in which there were instructions on loading from a flask- maybe that would shed some light if anyone knows what was in the manual.

I'm not saying it wasn't done. I'm saying from what I read, it wasn't common practice. The loading instructions for Colt revolvers did not say anything about putting grease over the balls, but now that I read them again, I notice that they tell you to place a wad between the ball and powder.



However, I did read somewhere that cavalrymen expecting rain would tightly place the caps on, and then place grease over the caps to keep the rain out. Perhaps they greased over the balls in the chambers as well.

Elmer Keith first shot cap and ball in 1912 (I think that's what he said) and learned to do so from Civil War veterans. I too have read that he cut up an old felt hat for wads. If he learned that from Civil War veterans, I guess then felt wads are correct to use.

brentp said:

1. I dont think the wad has enough lube on it, or can be fitted tight enough to clean and lube the bore. Not only that, but any lube/cleaning that the wad does is after the ball, and is countered by the burning powder that follows it.

Click to expand...

Some wads have more lube than others, and many folks lube their own wads, so I'd suggest your generalization isn't appropriate. I use wads that appear to have NO lube, but the compression in the chamber squeezes out what is there and it appears to be quite efficient. And yes, more fouling is deposited behind the wad on each shot, but if it takes out even some of what's there ahead of it, it takes longer (more shots) to accumulate enough to be a problem. In my experience, shooting with and without, they definitely reduced the buildup of fouling in my revolvers.

2. If using a 20grn charge of 3f in a M1858, it would take a lot of wads to move the ball to the top of the chamber being as they are only about 1/16" thick compressed. For filling the extra space in the cylinder, cornmeal seems like a better option.

Click to expand...

Again, some wads are thicker than others, and some don't compress nearly as much as others. The ones I use are 1/8" thick and compress very little; the difference in ball location is significant. Unfortunately, I don't shoot well enough to appreciate the difference, but the people who regularly kick my butt in matches swear they help their accuracy. :idunno:

3. if I am using a .454 ball in my 1858 and cutting a ring when I press it into the cylinder, a chain fire seems very unlikely.

Click to expand...

I happen to agree that a good fitting ball is the first line of defense against a chain fire from the front. But cast balls can have voids that are uncovered by the swaging action, thus defeating it without you knowing it (very unlikely, but possible), so a second line of defense isn't unreasonable. And they're a whole lot less messy than grease/Crisco/lard/tallow/rhinoceros fat or whatever.

I NEVER used a wad.
I use to use grease over the balls when I first started shooting cap and ball revolvers over 30 years ago.
Now I only put grease over the ball about every 5-6 cylinder I fire.
And the only time I have had chain fires is when I fired a round without all loaded chambers capped.
I believe with a proper size ball, that you have no more of a chance of a chain from the front of the cylinder than you would with a modern cartridge firing revolver.

Been shooting cap-n-balls since 78 IIRC. I have always received better accuracy with grease. Namely "Lard". I would love to use the wads and have plenty on hand, but grease does it for me as to eliminating fliers in the group. Must keep the fouling softer. I guess I could use a wad and brush between shots, but have never tried it.

Maybe homemade wads with more lube would be the way to go. Or maybe lube pills under the ball made from crisco/lard with enough beeswax to stiffin it up.

Bob

I don't use wads but do lub the ball/chamber end.
I have found that SPG lube works great. It was developed to be used in black powder cartridge guns. But, it works well in Cap and Ball too.

BI

My first reply on the forum. Just want to say very good info from all above. It is interesting to know how others feel about the use of wads. thanks