get on paper at 25 yardsSights on a Lyman ifle

I'm trying to sight in a Lyman GPR for elk season and cannot even get on paper. I'm about a foot high at 25 yards and I think I need to replace the rear sight, and then if needed the front.

My question is:

Some firearms (like SIGs)the dovetail slot tapers so the sights have to be installed and removed from one side only. Is this the case with Lymans or can they be installed from either side with no problem?

Is this a new rifle? Are you putting the front sight at the bottom of the rear sight, or up towards the "ears"? And what's your load that's a foot high? We kind of need to know all of this in order to get to the real problem.

As you're probably aware, you move the rear sight in the direction that you want the ball to go, and the front sight in the opposite direction. A taller front sight should lower the POI. Most folks new to this rifle find that they have to file the front sight, so that's why I asked how you were aiming through the sights.

If you're good left-to-right, and the groups are tight enough, maybe you should try shooting the rifle at Elk ranges prior to messing with the sights. The POI should drop an inch or two even with a hunting charge :wink:

Dave

Lyman dovetails are not tapered; you can install/remove from either side.

I presume you're using the primitive non-adjustable rear sight and simple blade front sight. Most Lyman users report this combination shoots low out of the box, so Dave's suggestion is a good one. If you can, you might wish to consider changing your sight picture (where you hold the blade with respect to the slot).

Another consideration is the age of the gun. If it's new, sighting it in will be an exercise in futility. New GPR's are notorious for being inconsistent until you've put a hundred rounds (give or take a few) down range. How are your group sizes?

The rifle is from a kit, I did not have the know how to finish it and a friend completed it for me, which I have posted about before. They are not the sights that came with the kit, they consist of a fairly large buckhorn for the rear and a blade sight about 4/10 of an inch high for the front. Holding the blade in the middle of the buckhorn "circle" shoots very high. I estimate its 1 foot high at 25 yards. Holding the blade even with the bottom of the buckhorn and it shoots low, roughly 10 inches at 25 yards and two feet at 50 yards. I have one hole in the paper (the 10 inch low at 25 yards), the rest are estimates seeing the impact in the dirt berm behind the target. Trying to figure out whether to hold 1/3 or 1/4 or 2/5 high in the buckhorn seems a like ticket to miss when I'm excited. I want to have the sight picture against something solid, the middle of the sights or resting on top of the sights.
There are maybe 10 shots fired through it, and I can't tell if they are grouping or not, there aren't enough holes to compare. I was debating installing the original sights.

Sorry the computer and I are disagreeing the last few days, I didn't finish my post before it appeared on the forum.
The load is 90 grains Triple 7 which is not the minimum but on the lower end that Hogden recommends for patched round ball. Patch is .015, ball is .530 and 226 grains.
Thanks for the info on the break in for GPR, I'll run more shots through before I try anything but any advice is still appreciated

One thing you may try is the oft recommmended procedure of placing your target at 13 yards. This should keep all your shots on the paper. Once you have your rifle zeroed in at this distance you should be hitting 1" high at 50 yards, dead on at 75 and 1" low at 100 yards. Your trajectory will vary somewhat depending on your particular loading. I hope this helps.

Mr Brooks, I have re-read your posts a few times to get a clear picture of how you are using your sights and I believe you are using them incorrectly. Please take no offense if I am reading your post wrong.

The "circle" on the buckhorn sight is not an aiming aperature, it is merely there to help frame up your total target. There should be a very small notch cut in at the bottom of the circle, which is what is used to align to the front sight. The notch can be a "V" shape, or square shape, or semi-circle, depending on what you prefer. Maybe someone can post a picture here to illustrate. If you align your front sight with the small notch, you have little room for error, as compared to trying to hold the front sight consistantly in the same place on the bigger "cirle". Using the buckhorn circle for sighting will give you erratic results exactly as you described.

If you don't have a notch in the bottom of your rear sight, you can cut one in with a three cornered file, or have your friend do it for you.

I hope I'm not being too basic here, but sometimes we assume everyone is on the same page, then we realize we are reading two different books :surrender: . Bill

It kind of sounds like the buckhorn may be too deep to for you to get your sight picture right. Since the dovetail question has been answered I am going to take a shot at a couple of other things!
With a new black powder gun till you get around 100 shots or more through it and play around with different loads. You are not going to get real good consistency anyhow.
If this is a new gun. The mere fact of shooting a 100 or shots out of the barrel tends to wear down the rough spots in the barrel and then your patches aren't tearing up and then you will begin to get more consistent shots.
Also as mentioned load can have a big deal to do with accuracy and shot placement.
You don't mention the caliber or the load you are trying.
Some folks file the front sight to get the shot down but be very sparing until you get some shots thru her, you can always take more off the front sight but its a pain to put it back! :wink:

I agree. It sounds as though you are using the buckhorn sight like a ghost ring. You should ignore the 'ears' at the sides of the rear sigh completely. Use the notch at the bottom of the sight like you would on any other rifle. The top of the foresight blade should be level with the top of the rearsight notch. Like this......



You can use them as a 'ranging' sight, but oyu need to know the trajectory of the ball very well. Like this......(Ignore the description, I borrowed this image from a paintball forum)

You are using a bench rest, or sand bags?

Mr. Brooks, To help you "settle" the new barrel I find it is often usefull to take a bronze bore brush and a paste of automotive buffing coumpound. (not lapping coumpound which is courser )And giving the barrel about ten strokes to remove the sharp burrs in the rifling. This should help with the patch cutting on new barrels.This opinion is totally free and worth what you paid for it. :idunno:

You are right, I was using the buckhorn sights as a ghost ring.

There is a very small notch at the bottom of the sights, much too small to bracket the front sight, it's useless unless made wider and deeper.

I will look into filing the notch to a usable size.

I would suggest installing the factory sights that came with your kit. I used the standard front sight and the primitive rear sight that came in my .54 GPR flint kit. After drifting the rear sight for windage and filing the front sight to bring the elevation up, I can shoot one ragged hole groups (dead center) at 50 yards and almost the same at 100 yards from a bench. The primitive rear sight has a wide notch that fits the factory front sight well and gives you a nice sight picture :thumbsup:

I tried to replace the sights that came on my GPR with the primative sight and it is so loose it just falls out . Any ideas how to tighten it up.

That's a very common problem with Lyman's GPR primitive rear sight.

You can 'peen' the bottom of the sight to 'fatten' it up; that should be enough to make it work.

Place the sight upside down in a vise with the blade in the jaws (use a small piece of leather to cushion the metal against the jaws) and the base across the top. Hold a small steel punch on the base near, but not directly on, the side edge and strike the punch with a hammer hard enough to leave a small dent in the base. A couple of small dents on each side should be sufficient. This both widens and deepens the base a tiny amount. Check the fit and repeat as necessary.

This newbie is getting confused. Doesn't filing the front sight down actually raise the point of impact? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

I did like Mykeal. It makes it nice and snug. Been shooting it for over three years and it's still very tight. I don't know why Lyman sends those primitive sights out like that :idunno: . I called Lyman and they sent me another primitive rear sight. It was also a very loose fit. I just dropped it in a vice upside down and peened along the bottom edge with a hammer and punch. Works great now :thumbsup:

There is no dumb question. You are right. Filing the front sight will raise the point of impact. For some reason, some after market sights were installed that don't fit right. That's why I suggested installing the factory sights that came with the kit. The GPR has a tall front sight and when used with the factory adjustable or primitive rear sight, will require some filing. If you have any question, just ask. We were all new at one time, younger too :rotf:

Thanks for the suggestions,I'll give it a try.

Let us know how you do!

Good luck with the new smoke pole! Once she settles-down and you get used to her, you'll be able to cut playing cards in half with that rifle!

You may not need 90 grains of 777 for sighting her in. Don't want to catch a flinch before you get her settled......

Dave