Buying A Flintlock?

I am currently in Afghanistan, so I won't be able to get any library books out. I was looking at the different types of schools on Mark Wheland's website, which has descriptions and pictures. I like the style from the LANCASTER/LEBANON SCHOOL. http://www.markwhelandrifles.com/lancaster-shimmel.html

I am not looking for a stocky rifle, as you mentioned the Jaegers were. You wouldn't describe the lancaster as a stocky or chunky rifle would you?

Also, regarding your barrel suggestions -I am planning on getting a 42", swamped rice barrel.

Lt Frank said:

Go tell Hershal House or Jim Chambers they make SEMI-CUSTOM guns. :nono:

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I agree, Mike Brooks, Roh Stroh don't make semi-custom guns either.

Swampy, I really enjoyed looking at all the pictures of your rifles and the process it took to build it. I learned a lot and really enjoyed looking at your page. Thats a beautiful rifle you have there!

How would I figure out what my length of pull is?
Also, when it comes to locks, there are a lot of good looking locks out there. It is hard to know which one to pick. I want something that fits the period and style of a dickert or lancaster rifle, but I don't want to sacrifice performance. Can you have your cake an eat it too with these? Here were some I was looking at -can somebody give guidance?

Jim Chambers locks:
Deluxe Siler Flintlock
"Dale Johnson" Flintlock
Early Germanic Flintlock
Golden Age Flintlock

L&R Locks:
The Dickert Lock
The Classic Lock Model# 2100 Frizzen Bridle

What wouldn't be "wrong" with my rifle type, and will produce a fast ignition, is easy on flint, rugged, keeps out the rain, and is purty?

I don't consider myself an expert, but IMHO, Chambers "Early Germanic"... hands down! (Now, let's see what the experts say...)

The Classic Lock and the Dickert Lock by L&R look interesting!

I like the "rain sealer" these locks have. I don't really know anything about the reliability of these locks, how appropriate (or inappropriate) the classic lock might be on my early lancaster (it seems like the Dickert lock would be appropriate), and most importantly the reputation for quality of L&R.

Can anybody explain why Chambers would be a better company, and why a particular lock would be a better choice than another?

Here is the website blurb on the L&R Classic:
"L&R now offers the finest example of the "classic" Germanic design offered to today's shooters and gun builders. Locks of this type were commonly used throughout the Colonies by the greatest "Masters" of the Kentucky rifle art. Our locks sport a quick "time" by virtue of friction reducing bearing surfaces on the tumbler and sear, cam action, and a shorter, powerful stroke. An inconspicuous roller on the frizzen cam enhances frizzen action. In addition, our popular "rain sealer" on the underside of the lid helps keep your powder dry.

Lock Features: Thick bolster area for proper stock profiling. Traditional hook type springing. One position sear action for easier trigger set up. Highly polished internally. Available in right and left hand. Dim. 5 3/8" x 1" (although slightly larger overall, these locks are fully adaptable to the large Siler mortice). Recommended flint size: 3/4" Matching Side Plate Available." http://www.lr-rpl.com

Thanks for the kind words of my custom New England style guns. There are some guys, some companys who put out "cookie cutter" guns that would be considered semi-custom but someone who makes one of kind guns is definately a custom builder in my eyes.

Chambers probably puts out the best production lock. Most seem to need some sort of fine tuning but they problably need the least. L&R seems to have gained a bad rep about not having the proper heat treated parts and lots of problems with them. I did go with an L&R Manton on my Squirrel rifle but only because I knew my builder would make sure it worked just as well as any Chambers. If you don't have that or the ability to fix the lock right, you might want to stick with Chambers. :v

I have guns with both Chambers (Early Germanic) and L&R (Queen Anne) locks and all I can tell you is that although the L&R is a "good" lock, I think the Chambers is "better". Sorry I can't be more specific... I'm just going by the "feel" of it, I guess.

"Go tell Hershal House or Jim Chambers they make SEMI-CUSTOM guns.'

I was not refering to such builders they are in a different class than those mentioned.

For $1300 you will be able to get a better gun than if you put that much on a Pedersoli. Doesn't matter if you have it built or you find a nice one to your liking. There's a lot of disagreement on the subject of "factory", "custom", "semi custom", high/low quality, builders, etc. And I don't mean just on this forum but across the board. Some think it has to be pc/hc or it's not quality or fit to be called a custom. Many, probably most, couldn't care less if their gun is pc or not. All my flintlocks were built by hand from planks, probably not pc, but custom as they were built to my specifications for me. $1300 will get you this and you'll be able to go back to a "person" if there's a problem; not so with imports.

Keep in mind that a high quality gun you see at a gun show and buy, is not a custom. Was it made for you per your directions? For many this is not a problem if you like the gun. Is it pc? doesn't matter unless you reinact. Hershel House makes some of the most top quality guns available but they aren't pc as they are his "school" and have no historical provenance. Don't worry over the terms "custom", "semi custom", etc. Think instead in terms of "handmade" and you'll get what you want.

I am with Hanshi on this one. PC is as PC does. Don't get me wrong,I love a good pc rifle. I am even trying to build one right now. But I ordered my virginia to fit me and it may not come up to pc in some peoples eyes but thats their opinion. I know a siler lock wouldn't be the right choice for the earlier style although I think it would work on a later one, but I wanted function. And LC Rice recomended the deluxe siler to me for what I wanted the rifle to do. So if you want PC then by all means go for it,but if you go with one of the semi-custom builders I don't think you would regret it either. The old timers used what they had to build guns with and the customers wanted a rifle that would serve their wants and needs. I really don't think that has changed. Good luck with what ever you choose. Dew

"But I ordered my virginia to fit me and it may not come up to pc in some peoples eyes but thats their opinion. I know a siler lock wouldn't be the right choice for the earlier style although I think it would work on a later one'

Interesting, if someone knows about certain things of a historical nature it is opinion? You know the Siler is not correct for an early gun, is that also opinion or based on the originals?just curious as the above quote is confusing as is the constant pre-emtive stikes at PC. there is really no point in it at all.It is correctthat the old timers would buid a gun as the customer wanted but not with parts that had not been developed yet which is the point in the PC thing if that is what one wants.

I have not attacked or said anything negative about anyone concerning their choice of rifle weather it be PC or not! What I don't like is when someone starts getting on someones case about a gun that they post or one that they are ordering and then have someone start putting that person down because of their choice. I had a post highjacked and turned into something that I didn't intend it to on another form and like I said, I attacked no one. You know exactly what I am talking about TG. People should be courteous to others weather they agree with THEIR choice or not.

Well, I think we can all agree that - in this forum at least - that purty little bit of rock and pan for powder make 'em all real beauties. Compared to zip guns and like, anyway!
:thumbsup: :surrender:

Your right Homesteader! And I shouldn't get so worked up over something as supid as this and I apologize. I like coming on this forum and chating with you guys,I do learn alot from it. Dew

i do recall the post on the other forum and as with this one and others mostoften no one was attacked nor was a gun choice attacked on the other forum there were several comments exchanages about the various traits of a couple of types of guns, which included several items accesoried, furniture that would or would not be used on such a gun in the past, or the things that make a gun that which it is being represented as, and it was also mentioned that often some of the things that "make" a gun a certain style are missing or incorrect, this being the responsibility of the builder/parts vendor for not clarifying exactly what they offer and explaining the differences to their potential customers, this is an area that the forums can be educational, a few years ago the topic of French guns came up and a guy showed a pic of his C Fusil well it was not "right" and he had questioned the builder and sent down the wrong path in the begining as he wanted a gun that was "correct" for the period/gun type he was quite upset finding out he did not have what he thought he did, many do not care he did and those like him have a better shot now due to the instant info freeway of the web,some may get upset with some of the comments and exchanges but there may well be others learning and given the chance to make an educated choice should history be a part of the equation for them, and the guns that are not "correct" are not lesser guns than those that are if the owner does not care and pointing out the odds and ends that may be out of place is not a put down but a learning experience if allowed to be such.

I am not a pc or an anti pc guy. I like both of them and have guns that might be considered both. I have studied books by Baird,Hanson and Dillon as well as spending alot of time on these forums were I have learned alot and I still have alot to learn. You may not have meant anything bad ,but I took it that you were insulting my knowledge. I knew what I was ordering which was a rifle of funtion that may or may not be considered pc depending on who you talk to. If I took you the wrong way then I apologize and maybe next time we will understand each other a little better so we can avoid a big mess. Dew

Fellas, I appreciate all the discussion on PC versus what a man likes. I am going to get a rifle that is PC, because I want this rifle to be from our founding period -its just part of the appeal of having a flinter IMHO.

If I can change the subject though, because I am kind of stuck when it comes to locks. Like I posted below, its hard to know what is the best lock out there that also wouldn't be flat out wrong on an early lancaster/Dickert style rifle.

I would really appreciate some help here from your collective expertise! Thanks in advance!

Whittlin Tom said:

Also, when it comes to locks, there are a lot of good looking locks out there. It is hard to know which one to pick. I want something that fits the period and style of a dickert or lancaster rifle, but I don't want to sacrifice performance. Can you have your cake an eat it too with these? Here were some I was looking at -can somebody give guidance?

Jim Chambers locks:
Deluxe Siler Flintlock
"Dale Johnson" Flintlock
Early Germanic Flintlock
Golden Age Flintlock

L&R Locks:
The Dickert Lock
The Classic Lock Model# 2100 Frizzen Bridle

What wouldn't be "wrong" with my rifle type, and will produce a fast ignition, is easy on flint, rugged, keeps out the rain, and is purty?

Click to expand...

what is the best lock out there that also wouldn't be flat out wrong on an early lancaster/Dickert style rifle.

Click to expand...

These would be good choices:

Jim Chambers locks:
Deluxe Siler Flintlock
"Dale Johnson" Flintlock
Early Germanic Flintlock
Golden Age Flintlock

Click to expand...

L&R quality is generally bad enough these days that I'd recommend staying away from them.

I would really appreciate some help here from your collective expertise! Thanks in advance!

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Asking what is "right" for a particular style of gun isn't very popular here these days. The guys that bought guns they thought were PC and then find out they aren't get pretty cranky when they are reminded about it. :haha:
Trying to educate here is not a fun thing anymore, it makes many very angry and everyone wants to kill the messenger. Most of the guys that know anything don't post anymore on the subject.

I've been wanting to build an early Lancaster for a while now. I've been seriously considering using one of Chambers Dale Johnson lock. I've just been thinking about using it because it' alittle different but still would be correct for and early Lancaster.(at least to my limited knowledge)

I did build a fowler with an L&R Queen Anne lock. I have had no problems with it and it seems prety fast but I've never used a Chambers and woud like to try one. A Queen Anne lockk however wouldn't be your best chice for a Lancster though.