Rifle ID? And What Would You Do With It?

I picked this rifle up yesterday for cheap, and if it has to be a wall hanger or a part gun, so be it. I can live with that for the price I paid. But I am wondering if anyone may have an idea of its origins (there are no apparent markings, and it seems to be a 32 caliber). I'd also welcome any comments on getting the rifle back to working order. I went for it with an eye toward having a project gun for however long as I accumulate parts and get some work done on it. But don't want to go down that road unless there's hope for it.

The peep sight does not line up with the front, I'm wondering if it's mounted too far up on the tang, or doesn't even fit on the gun. I have no experience with MLs and peeps.

The hammer has a chip out of it, and I'm not sure what is up with the pan surrounding the nipple. It seems to me it wouldn't have been original to the gun, or else really cheaply made. The hammer cocks, hangs for a second and will just let go. It seems gummy/sticky. There is no hesitancy to suggest there is/was a half-cock position.

On to the pics:

















Thanks for taking a look and letting me know what you all think about it.

Home made by someone that had never really looked at a muzzleloader rifle before. Just put together from parts....I think...Tom

I second the homemade part But looks like the triggers and barrel are quality so I think you could make a shooter out of it. Pull the lock out and see if it functions correctly outside of the rifle. Ask more questions as you go. I personally would ixnay the sights and install some plain ol' iron sights.

Yes, I was a little bit impressed with the barrel. It's heavy, long, pretty smooth. I think the barrel has some rust in it. I saw some other people on here talking about having ruined barrels bored out to a larger caliber, I thought if that was worthwhile there sure is plenty of girth to work with.

Well, the dang sights and set trigger are probably worth over $100, not to mention the barrel and other furniture. If you got it cheap, you have a nice set of parts to work with. If you don't mind "a little bit of ugly", shoot it as is.

I too agree that it is homemade, at least the stock. As long as the bore is good and you can get the lock to function properly, I think it will be a good little shooter.

Yeah, the sights and trigger are what caught my attention. I knew the lock had an issue going over there. I won't mind telling you that he was asking $50 and I gave $35. He also promised me a "crate of accessories and ammo" when he came across it, but I'm not holding my breath. If that shows, it will really be doubly worth it.

You might be surprised, some of my ugliest guns are the best shooters. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/283745/post/1326051/hl//fromsearch/1/

There are some things that point to a mid/late 19th Century target rifle. Mainly the barrel, overall profile,brass cap cup, front sight, under rib, triggers, maybe the lock and Credemore sight. It may be original, albeit just for targets...not finely built or a restock of a target rifle. Could be 30 to 140 years old it's hard to tell by the pics... my gut says 20th Century.

Percussion hammers commonly have a notch cut into the front of the cup so it may not be chipped.

The brass around the nipple is a cap cup or homemade version of a cap cup. It's to contain the corrosive gasses from the cap. You see many original rifles with a great deal of corrosion and wood deterioration from the caps, this prevents it somewhat. Since caps are no longer as corrosive this could date to when they were.

As far as the action of the lock, it might have a single set trigger. With a single set target trigger the rear must be set for it to hold full cock. Many target rifles were equipped with such.

I would get it really checked out by an expert before I did much to it.

I don't think your gun is ugly at all. The one I picked up will need some work before it's worth shooting. The family that had it, I think just shot it to be shooting, not caring if they hit the target or not. When I asked about the peep, I was told they looked over the aperture and through the frame! It won't move anywhere near into line with the front the way it's mounted now.

I might not tear into this one until next week, as I need to have time to figure out how things come apart and go back together since I can't just go to the manufacturer's website! I'd hate to tear into it and have to leave parts scattered about.

the sights look to me like the T/C target sights. ya could probably get 100 bucks or so for'em on evil-bay.

If that "chip" was a notch deliberately put there, it was one lazy gunmaker that just gave it a rough whack and said good enough!

I experimented with the triggers. The set won't set, hammer back, nor hammer relaxed.

I'm not going to rush into anything with it. My trouble around here is finding a gunsmith with knowledge of MLs. I can't find anyone interested in giving an assessment when you don't really know where to start. Seems they like you to walk in the door and start putting in work orders that will cost high dollar, and don't have time to talk with you if they feel there's no money in it, which is horrible for building up trust in potential customers.

I was looking for a T/C peep earlier, I was shocked to see people asking $186 the last I located them. I wouldn't pay more than $40, so I did without. That's something I want to do, see if I can match the sight up to a known part number and maybe make use of them.

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When looked at from the top of the butt, IMO that tang sight frame appears to be out of square, leaning towards the right - most likely from a blow while it was raised.


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Yes, it does look out of square in the pic. What I do know is that the peep has you looking something like 45 degrees above the plane of the barrel. It won't crank down lower, so I think it should've been put lower on the tang and cranked up a bit. That's the problem with the vertical. If I get that solved, then maybe I can see the horizontal of it.

The peep sight is made for long range shooting and it is mounted to far forward on the tang.

The screw that is located between the triggers adjusts the amount of engagement the front trigger has with the rear 'set' trigger. If it is screwed in too far it will prevent the engagement of the front trigger with the rear trigger so the rear trigger can't be set.
You can totally remove the screw without causing a problem. After you do, the rear trigger should "catch" and release only when the front trigger is pulled.

Locks with a 'fly' in the tumbler are needed when a double lever double set trigger is installed.

The 'fly' will prevent the lock from engaging the half cock position when the hammer is falling from a cocked position.
Try lowering the hammer to the fired position and then raising it until you hear the 'click' of the sear entering the half cock notch.
If this doesn't engage the half cock, the reason may be because the lock is gummed up. Remove it and give it a good cleaning to remove all of the old oil. Then re-oil it with a light weight oil and try it again.

Removing the lock is fairly easy.
Remove the screw or screws on the panel on the side opposite the lock.
When you do this, back out the screw about 2 turns.
Then, with the hammer at full cock (or half cock if you can get it to work) tap the screw head.
This will move the lock slightly out of the stock.

Repeat this process until the screw disengages from the lock. You should now be able to easily remove the lock from the stock.

Let us know what you find.