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York tang shape and inletting

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aragorn

40 Cal.
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Jan 10, 2005
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I've reached the point of inletting the tang on my Chambers York rifle, and am wondering what shape is best. To begin with I assumed I'd be cutting and filing the tang to one of the shapes in the Turpin video, or similar. Then I began looking at finished rifles with the full uncut flared tang (mine is a Rice barrel with a 2 3/16" tang), e.g. The John Bivens Lancaster kit by Michael Hayes currently on the TOTW website, and decided I probably liked the look of that even more (and not just because it involves less work, I promise!).

I'm really just curious to know what others do. I probably need to look at a lot more period rifles to see what's more correct.

Elsewhere on the forum I've read about the need to leave a tiny gap at the back of the tang inlet, 015 or so, to prevent the barrel recoil splitting the wrist. Is this common practice? Should I be more worried about this with a tang shaped to a point, i.e. that might act as a wedge, rather than the flat flared end of the uncut tang?
 
i left mine square,then shaped a slight bevel along the sides just like the video .the most important part is to make sure the breech fits flush against the stock with the breech plug removed before inletting the tang.the taggs purpouse is to hold the barell breech flush with the stock so the breech part of the stock absorbs the recoil not the tang :thumbsup: :imo: :m2c: :hatsoff:
 
I suspect you are asking about my comments about leaving a .015 gap at the rear of the tang.

I feel it is important. Remember, .015 is only about 4 to 5 sheets of paper, but if the gun is used much, the recoil will sometimes compress the wood fibers where the breech of the barrel stop against them. As they compress, the tang and the barrel will move rearward.

I think the pointed tang you are going to have will cause a crack even better than the square ended tangs have been known to do.

I would suggest that when you inlet the tang, you try for the closest fit at the sides and at the rear that you can get.
When your done, take just one more tiny vertical cut with the chisel on these rear surfaces adjacent to the metal at the rear of the tang.
It doesn't take much, but you should be able to insert at least 2 up to 5 pieces of printer paper into the area.
:imo:
 
The main reason for split wrists is grain not aligned with the wrist. If the grain clearly "runs out", then you could break the wrist 7 different ways, not just shooting it. In my experience, if the barrel is not properly inletted and does not have a good recoil surface at the breech and breechplug, the worst you'd experience is a chipping of the wood at the tang. I doubt anything under a 12 gauge heavily loaded would break a wrist from recoil, even if the tang tail was the major contact point. The tang bolt, pins in the underlugs, friction all along the barrel inlet all work together to prevent much kickback.
 
rich: I gather from your comment that you would not put any clearance between the rear of the tang and the wood?

Any other builders out there that think ole Zonie has been sniffing the felt tip marker too much?? ::
 
Oh Yes, I think you have been sniffing way to many marker fumes ! :crackup: :crackup: However, I also think you are correct in the thoughts of leaving a lil space at the rear of the tang, especially a pointed tang.

Rich makes a good point about the grain of the wood being correct at the wrist & this is most critical for large bore rifle & even more critical on a pointed tang. His experience exceeds mine many times over & his advice is backed well with lots of experience. I also feel the grain here is most important & more important than the shape of the tang, but as we all know sometimes the wood here is not perfect so I feel a lil safety measure could be helpful in this area also, mainly to remove any concerns of later problems. Thus I leave a lil tiny gap at the rear of the tang usually & then fill it with a solt brown wax or brown paste shoe polish & you cannot even tell there is a .010 gap there & if it ever did move it would just push the wax out. However, to date I don't know of any of mine ever having a problem there as I am pretty particular of having that breech & base & end of the barrel quite secure.

:results:
 
I have always made sure the back of the barrels breech is tight against the stock as well as the back of the breech plug being tight against the wood. I always felt these areas acted like a recoil lug area in a modern rifle. The sides of the tang are lightly touching wood (determined by candle soot), while the back of the squared tang is scraped so that the soot doesn't indicate contact with the wood.
I think Rich is correct in saying the snug fit of the barrel, using slotted lugs with pins (so the wood can move), and making sure of wood contact at the barrel breech and back of breech plug absorb the recoil. Leaving the back of the tang very close but not in contact with the wood prevents chipping when removing and installing the barrel.
If I thought the wood fibers would compress during firing, I would consider using a little Acra-gel behind the barrel and breech plug, to make a perfect fit and absorb all the recoil.
Of course having the grain run in the right direction through the wrist is of prime importance.

Regards, Dave
 
Zonie, I didn't imply you been sniffing the felt marker too much, did I? That would hardly be period correct! Maybe, just maybe, sampling the jug. Now that would be PC. :winking:

Naw, I am just a freak when it comes to inletting and the thought of being able to slip actual objects (even pieces of paper) into an inlet gives me the willies.

I agree that there's a need to be careful to not focus recoil on the tang. I do make sure there is no inletting black on the wood when finishing inletting a tang. I do relieve it a couple of thousandths of an inch, scrape it, etc. I also generally have to clean up my inlets after raising the grain, staining, and finishing.

If I leave the rear of the tang just barely not contacting (by inletting black) I feel confident it will stay that way and even "improve" (horrors for one who loves good wood to metal fit). Generally wood shrinks over time. I know, properly dried wood is not supposed to do this. But I have a 30 year old rifle where the parts stand a little more "proud" of the stock in the past 5 years than they ever did before. And I live in St. Louis, a hub of humidity.

Last but not least (opinions will vary) I just imagine that a significant gap behind the tang might gather crud and fill in, and perhaps disappear functionally.

One more speculation: I am guessing that the tradition of leaving a gap at the rear of the tang is a carryover from powerful centerfire rifles, and custom bolt actions, where the stock was often relieved at the rear of the receiver, and gun writers such as Jack O'Conner back in the day would weave magical tales of custom sporters in .375 H&H or .458 Winchester magnum and Cape buffalo.

Note that stocks on heavily loaded, light, wicked recoiling military muzzleloading guns such as the 1863 Springfield, though made on spindle carvers, did not leave a gap that I can detect (at least on the one my great-grandpappy carried in the Civil War).
 
rich: Ma wif hid tha jug so's all Ah gots are tha felt tip. :: Ah'l tell em PC folks it are frum tha jug jus so's thay kan be happy tho. :: ::

One thang are fer certin. Ole strider got his question answared bi ye nice folks. :front:
 
Ole strider did get his question answered good. Some really interesting discussion here folks - thanks!
 
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