Wuttembergische Jagerbusche M 1859

[Jim Blair]

One of these rifles came into a local shop.I can find little information other than it is pictured and IDed in Firearms From Europe-Whisker et al.Anybody help with a source for information on the net?

 

[necchi]

Norweigen? Breechloader?

M1859 Army kammerlader. A short rifle with two bands, it was produced for the Sharpshooter Company in Stockholm (today known as the Kings Guard), for the Jegers and for sergeants in the infantry. The majority of the M1859 was converted from M1849, M1855 and possibly also from the M1846 rifles,,,
:idunno:

 

[Jim Blair]

German State of Wurttemberg.Jaeger Regiment two band muzzle loading rifle.Has double set triggers.I found it in only the book I mentioned.One of the imports brought in during the Civil War.May have a Confederate provenance.A google search yielded no information.In appearance it is similiar to some Swiss cantonal military rifles of the same vintage.

 

[TFoley]

One of these rifles came into a local shop.I can find little information other than it is pictured and IDed in Firearms From Europe-Whisker et al.Anybody help with a source for information on the net?

I have to say that you haven't given us much to go on...period? Flint or percussion? Percussion converted from flint? Calibre [in mm, please].

tac

 

[Jim Blair]

One of these rifles came into a local shop.I can find little information other than it is pictured and IDed in Firearms From Europe-Whisker et al.Anybody help with a source for information on the net?

I have to say that you haven't given us much to go on...period? Flint or percussion? Percussion converted from flint? Calibre [in mm, please].

tac

Wuttembergische Jagerbusche M 1859 If this doesn't tell you what it is,chances are you're not going to be able to help.It is a military rifle,that is the model desigination.It is not in my possesion.Beyond being pictured in the book I mentioned there is no other information that I've found.I have found some info on the bayonet but none on the rifle.

 

[ken.clements]

spell it like this:
Württembergische Jägerbüchse M 1859
Subsitute the "ü" with "ue" and tha "ä" with "ae"...Copy and paste in google and you will get a lot of info. It may be German.
What info do you need?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Jim, the Württembergische arms are hard to find. Are these two Württemberg Jägers holding the rifle you are talking about?

You'll find info on the bayonet and the above photo here:
http://www.waffensammler-kuratorium.de/ya1860/ya1860ge.html

 

[Jim Blair]

LOL Ken that was the way it was spelled in the only book I have that IDed it. :idunno:

Thanks for the tip on the spelling! :thumbsup:

 

[Jim Blair]

That looks like it.It was brought into a shop along with a M1850 Foot Officers Sword I believe according to the name inscribed on it may have belonged to a Confederate officer.The names checks out and the people who brought it in are of the same last name.I'm trying to find out if there were any purchase or known usages of Confederate origin.The officer was in the 33rd Virginia the Stonewall Brigade.

 

[Jim Blair]

What info do you need?

Anything you can tell me. :grin: I have a pretty good library and sources on U.S. arm,not so much on European ones of that period.

 

[TFoley]

spell it like this:
Württembergische Jägerbüchse M 1859
Subsitute the "ü" with "ue" and tha "ä" with "ae"...Copy and paste in google and you will get a lot of info. It may be German.
What info do you need?

Ken, my post was a virtual duplicate of yours. I am a Class 1 German interpreter but I'm restricted to accents on my Japanese keyboard computer. For the OP, there was never any doubt in my mind that it was German - having lived there for eight years.

tac

 

[Jim Blair]

Guys,I've googled that M1859 info to death.I found the link Va.Manuf.06 posted 3 days ago.Lots on the bayonet not much on the rifle.No doubt it is German states manufacture,it's listed as such in pretty much the only book on imported Civil War arms available.I can make out Waffenfabrik on the lockplate but not the maker.Very few markings that I could see the short time I looked at it.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

All Germanic arms, whether Prussian, Hannoverian, Saxon, etc. were imported by the North, none went initially to the South. That doesn't mean that none were captured and used by Southern forces but most of the Prussian arms went to Union troops in the Western Theater where the Stonewall Brigade never served.

As far as use by an officer in the 33rd Va., it is extremely doubtful if for no other reason than that officers didn't use longarms and that goes in spades for regiments in the Stonewall Brigade. Jackson (and most other Civil War Generals) was a strict disciplinarian and felt that an officer was more than adequately armed with a pistol and sword. He felt that his officers were too busy directing their troops to stand in ranks with their privates and fire in volleys. When the name was put on the gun would be interesting to know, it was more likely to have been put on the gun in the 1960s rather than the 1860s. But family memory is a funny thing, it would never do than to argue with "Grandpa's gun" and it's glorious family tradition which more than likely came from Bannerman's after the 1880s. As you know, see the gun as the gun, not as the story. It is a scarce piece that can stand on it's own merit.

 

[Jim Blair]

The names inscribed on the sword,not the rifle.The officer was killed at Second Manasas and was not married but had two brothers.I'm investigating to see if these owners are descendants of one of them.Along with the sword and that rifle were brought in a pretty nice M1873 Winchester and a Colt Berdan II rifle in about 90% condition with a nice bright shiny bore.Dad or Grandpa died and they are argueing over who gets what and brought them in for an appraisal and an ID.I'm just helping the dealer,a friend,out.LOL Had a foot injury,I'm in a wheelchair going crazy,so I'm researching all this.If the sword can be provenanced to that officer through a chain of ownership it could be potentially worth a lot of money.

I knew most of the German arms went to western units.Fremont particularly had people buying all kinds of stuff independent of government agents.A lot of Illinois units were armed with German/Austrian arms.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Name on sword, not rifle - got it, I need to read more carefully. Yes, the name on the sword will increase the value quite a bit.

I don't envy you your task, but would love to see all of the items, they are all good pieces and, if times were better for the collectibles market, would bring high prices. Still, all will find willing buyers if the asking prices are where the market says they should be as you well know.

Good luck with your foot, wheel chairs are no fun - or so I have been told. :wink:

 

[ken.clements]

Jim, the Württembergische arms are hard to find. Are these two Württemberg Jägers holding the rifle you are talking about?

You'll find info on the bayonet and the above photo here:
http://www.waffensammler-kuratorium.de/ya1860/ya1860ge.html[/quote]

take a look here also http://www.waffensammler-kuratorium.de/buewild/babue1843da.html
is this the rifle?

 

[Jim Blair]

Ken I've got an ID on the rifle,it's like the one in the picture that Va.Manuf. posted.What baffled me to start with were many of the features looked similiar to many Swiss military rifles of that period.Very similiar to this Swiss rifle in the shape of the lockplate and breech area with the double sets and trigger guard like that in the following link.The lockplate markings were partially obliterated,the only thing I could make out was part of the word waffenfabrik.This was what initially was baffling me,no record or mention of any Swiss rifles being imported by North or South during the war.LOL I just got the book I mentioned IDing it on Monday.
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9633/10496323_2.jpg?v=8CDC94EA5D96D70

The rifle itself is shown and IDed in Whisker's book as I mentioned but other than that picture no information or specifics was given as to usage or who/when they were imported here during the CW.I found through the link that Va.Manuf. posted it is .54 cal.

Thanks for that link,I have little info on European weapons of that period many of which came over here in quantities large and small during the Civil War.I've run across a few Austrian smooth bores,mostly area family guns grandpa brought back from CW service.Many Illinois units were armed with them up till the end of the war.

 

[Jim Blair]

Here it is fellas.It's a model 1860 instead of 1859 as IDed in the book-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Bd7-Ji_hE

 

[dyemaker]

Davide Pedersoli sells an M 1857 rifled musket.