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WM. Large ........56 cal?

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Found a pretty cool plains rifle today.

Thought it was .58


Says wm large on the barrel.


No makers marks, or other info.



I'm a long ways from home and any calipers.


A friend's brass caliber guage indicates about .56


Ever heard of such a thing?
 
It could very well be .56 caliber, as Mr. Large was not bound to the "standard" calibers we see today. However, those triangular caliber gauges are notoriously inaccurate, and if the muzzle is relieved or coned, as many old rifles are, the caliber gauge will give an oversize reading. You really need pin gauges, and they need to go a little way down the bore to get an accurate measurement. The "Liver Eating Johnson" Hawken is reportedly .56 caliber, but Herb Troester, a forum member and Hawken expert, has examined it and found it is actually a .54 with a slightly funneled bore at the muzzle.

With all that said, though, true .56 caliber guns may turn up. The T/C Renegade Smoothbore was a true .56.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
I just bought a rifle advertised as a .52. When I got it, it was a .50. Turns out the seller's employee, not knowing any better, used a shotgun bore gauge on it.
 
Another way to determine the bore size is to place a brass rod (3/8" diameter by 3" long) in the bore, then place an oversized lead ball (in your case maybe a .58 ball) in the muzzle and pound it into the barrel about 4" with a dowel. Then shake the barrel using the brass rod like a slide hammer to knock the ball out. Measure the lands with a micrometer to get your bore size. The brass rod will not hurt the rifling in the bore.
 
The lands of the slug you remove will be the grove size,The size of the grooves will be the bore size. The slug you get will be the mirror image of the bore.
 
Anyone recognize these parts or craftsmanship?

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The William Large barrel is easy to identify because of the name stamped on it. I don't think I've ever seen a lock quite like that one, with that high, convex top line. That makes me think it might be a custom job, maybe by Bob Roller. If it is a Roller lock, chances are pretty good that Mr. Roller made the triggers, too. I know his locks and triggers were frequently teamed up with Large barrels. If it is a Roller lock, it should be marked as such on the inside of the lock plate.

As for the overall craftsmanship, I can't say. I do believe that rifle was very well built. The moulding or panel around the lock plate is rather generous, especially ahead of the lock, but it is very crisp and well-defined. I don't much care for the socket-head clean out screw in the snail, but maybe it's a replacement. T.K. Dawson was building nice Hawkens in the sixties. I can't say your rifle is one of his, but it is a nice rifle.

Do you know the identities of the locksmith and the stocker?

Notchy Bob
 
I had a bill large chunk gun in .55 cal. What a tack driver. Sorry I parted with it.
 
I'm stumped!

I have handled a number of old sporting rifles from the 19th century with double set triggers, and more often than not, they had no half-cock. They also required that the triggers be set in order for the hammer to be cocked. People now consider this an unsafe arrangement, and I have read of many injuries from accidental discharges in the literature of the day. Anyway, the absence of a half cock was common back in the day, but all the locks I know of in current production now have a half-cock, which is actually the "safety" on a muzzleloader, and most of them also have a fly or detent in the tumbler.

I think that is a nice looking rifle you have, neatly put together around a first-class barrel. I've no idea who made the lock, but it is a nice one.

Have you shown this rifle on the ALR forum? Bob Roller visits there frequently. He was well acquainted with Bill Large and he knows a lot about locks. There are a number of professional builders and long-time collectors on that forum, also. They may help identify your rifle and the lock and triggers.

I would be proud to own a rifle like that. Thanks for showing it!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
Certainly agree re the no half cock & with set triggers . I cant say the lock inspires me but its a lock at a time there where far less offerings such as there are today . Iv'e heard of' Blue Grass' locks but cant recall seeing any. Regards Rudyard
 
Unless my eyes deceive me , the lock bolster appears to have two bolt holes. One used and one plugged in a different location.. Was the lock a replac ement for the original, or a builder error ?
 
Your eyes don't deceive you, I saw that but some times the bar is rivetted to give the desired thickness . No reason not to do that ,its just a spacer & if the M spring bears its not any great stress . might be that or a re use would'nt matter. Its not a Stanton or Brazier .
Rudyard
 
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