Why only .40 caliber on all these original rifles ??

[Ohio Rusty]

I had a fun opportunity to visit Campus Martius in Marietta Ohio. Campus Martius is the birthplace of 18th century settlement in Ohio in 1788. Among the many, many original items that were 18th century, and many used within the Campus Martius stockade, there was a nice display of rifles. These weren't there as all were percussion except one original flinter on display (standing in the left corner of the display case). Many of these rifles were made between the late 1830's through the 1850's by Caleb Vincent, a famous Ohio gunmaker. I examined the ends of every barrel closely. There was one rifle that was probably .44 caliber and another octagon to round smootbored gun that was .54 to 58 caliber. Every other rifle in that display case was no larger than 40 caliber. (Having owned several 40's and shot a .40 for the last 20 years, I can spot a .40 a mile away). That means 20 of those guns were all near or about 40 caliber. I find it surprising that .40 caliber was the dominant caliber for all rifles in the early 19th century. So here is my question ... It is possible that the makers of these rifles had only one rifling machine and one wooden barrel twist rifling guide and only one mandrel of .40 caliber, thus making every gun based on that size of .40 caliber mandrel and cutters because they were unable to make any other size ??

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Most rifles in Ohio were made in calibers under .40. By 1880 deer were all but exterminated by hunters using small caliber muzzleloaders. Over the years a good many barrels were freshed, resulting in larger calibers. A fair number of Vincent rifles remain as J.C. Vincent made them until just before WWI. The collection at the Campus Martius Museum is one of the largest you will see. The Log Cabin has a good number of them as well. It was easy for a gunsmith to make larger caliber bores by making a reamer to bring it to size and a cherry to cut the mold which went with the rifle. Rate of twist was more difficult though some smiths were know to use an existing barrel as a guide when something different was needed.

The Association of Ohio Longrifle Collectors had their show in Marrietta this weekend but I was not able to attend.

 

[nchawkeye]

Yep, rifles doing the Revolutionary War time period were larger than .40, mostly .45 to .58...As the deer were killed off, the calibers got smaller...Many North Carolina rifles made in the Salem area were in that .40 caliber range from 1820-1860...And, as I'm sure you know, once men started going up the Missouri River, they started making them larger again, for that purpose but even the Hawken boys made smaller calibers for the local trade...

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have also been puzzled why so many rifles I have seen in museums were of small caliber, and heavy barreled. I always presumed they were made small caliber in anticipation refreshing would be needed a couple times in the life of the rifle. And, being heavy, I presumed they were shot from rest, like a tree branch.

 

[oldwood]

As has been stated here in the forum many times, during the eastern Indian war times , 1750 through 1800 , the standard calibers .47 through .60, were proper for war and hunting. Smaller calibers were considered inadequate. That's what's written in the books.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Most rifles in Ohio were made in calibers under .40. By 1880 deer were all but exterminated by hunters using small caliber muzzleloaders. Over the years a good many barrels were freshed, resulting in larger calibers. A fair number of Vincent rifles remain as J.C. Vincent made them until just before WWI. The collection at the Campus Martius Museum is one of the largest you will see. The Log Cabin has a good number of them as well. It was easy for a gunsmith to make larger caliber bores by making a reamer to bring it to size and a cherry to cut the mold which went with the rifle. Rate of twist was more difficult though some smiths were know to use an existing barrel as a guide when something different was needed.

The Association of Ohio Longrifle Collectors had their show in Marrietta this weekend but I was not able to attend.

I went to the ALOC meeting. Tons of great Ohio made rifles on display, including more Vincent made guns.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I went to the ALOC meeting. Tons of great Ohio made rifles on display, including more Vincent made guns.
Ohio Rusty ><>

I got stuck working....

 

[Robby]

I went to the ALOC meeting. Tons of great Ohio made rifles on display, including more Vincent made guns.
Ohio Rusty ><>

Rusty, did you take any pictures? I like the Ohio guns and the Vincents in particular.
Robby

 

[Ohio Rusty]

On the Hershel House Longrifles and such facebook website, Lisa Williams took quite a few pictures and posted them there. all the tables had some beautiful Ohio Guns.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Kabulrocks]

Same at the J. M. Davis Gun Museum. A former curator told me that most of the muzzleloading rifles in the museum are in the .38 to .40 caliber range. They have a few hundred of them on display. Very few still have thier original flintlock, most were converted to percussion at some point.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Is the JM Davis museum still open?

 

[Kabulrocks]

Yes, the museum is still open. They were closed over the winter for some lighting and display renovations. The re-opening was in March, 2023.
It’s a nice museum, and is located on Rt 66.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

One other reason reason for the reduction in caliber, along with the shift from medium-sized game (deer) to small game, and the reduction of the need to defend the cabin from Native folks defending their land, is that blackpowder quality had improved enough that the ballistics and terminal energy (you might say "killing power") formerly provided by big projectiles moving slowly could be achieved by smaller projectiles moving much faster. This made things more economical as less powder and lead were needed to get similar results.

 

[smoothshooter]

I have also been puzzled why so many rifles I have seen in museums were of small caliber, and heavy barreled. I always presumed they were made small caliber in anticipation refreshing would be needed a couple times in the life of the rifle. And, being heavy, I presumed they were shot from rest, like a tree branch.

Also, it’s possible that the larger caliber rifles being older, were used harder and longer until they were lost or used up.
Those that did survive would have been, in some cases, re-barrelled to very small bores in large barrels in anticipation of future “ freshing out “ like you said.

 

[oldwood]

Another bit of info on the demise of many old larger cal. longrifles , was that they were handed to young folks for training rifles and the new small caliber gun was saved from abuse.

 

[Eterry]

You must remember David Crockett used at least two 40-42 caliber rifles, and said to kill HUNDREDS of Black Bears with them. The conical bullet was created in the 1600, IIRC, but maybe he double balled, or took head shots. He also supposedly took a 40-ish caliber rifle to south Texas for that little Dust-up in '36.

 

[oldwood]

In one of the Foxfire books , there is a record total lifetime bear harvest by one old Appalachian hunter that hunted with dogs , and used a double barreled .36 cal. percussion rifle. I think the kill was 800 bears.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Same at the J. M. Davis Gun Museum. A former curator told me that most of the muzzleloading rifles in the museum are in the .38 to .40 caliber range. They have a few hundred of them on display. Very few still have thier original flintlock, most were converted to percussion at some point.

That is one of the museums I was referencing. Not east of the big muddy but still many small calibers. Great place to visit BTW.

 

[brazosland]

A .40 caliber ball properly applied at medium range while settle most disagreements with finality.

Once up the Missouri and across the Mississippi the rules changed a bit and ranges got a might longer and heavy calibers made a come back.

An extra hole sized .395 will not brighten your day.