That is quite unfair to associate all screw ups with the name Bubba....Definition of bubba
bubba
- In gunsmithing, a crude attempt with inappropriate tools at repair or modification which results in damage, often serious or even dangerous. Also, a person who does such work, the generic name for any member of that population, or the name of the collective population.
Removing the breech plug on a traditional muzzleloader for cleaning when it's not designed to be removed and without proper tools and knowledge, falls under the above definition.
Please don't "Bubba" your muzzleloader.
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Why not remove the breech plug????
- Thread starter ML48
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Now that gave me a sensible chuckle.
I've changed the oil in countless cars over a lifetime but have never removed the oil pan to clean it as part of the service. They are made to come apart and go back together again and I have removed and installed a lot of pans too but for reasons other than routine service.
I didn't "associate all screw ups with the name Bubba...."
How many reasons do you need before you consider it a bad idea ?
I'm simply trying to educate you, ( As are others ). After all you did say " Let'er rip" (guess you weren't ready for reality)
It's a slang dictionary definition created by the gun community, and it's extremely relevant to this topic.
Best of luck on your endeavor.
My first muzzleloader was a TC percussion 50 cal. the breech plug could be removed by hand. My next one was a Pedersoli Kentucky flint. It was old when i bought it 24 years ago. Never had a problem removing and replacing the breech plug in that one, I always used Loctite copper based anti size on the threads. I now have a smoothbore which I just stripped to put a new stock on it. I started working on cars at age 13, no training it just came natural to me. In my early 20's I worked for a relative in an aluminum window factory. The stamping presses were patented on July4TH 18XX. When they broke we had to make parts for them. We had a lathe, a Bridgeport mill, and a Do-All grinder. I never had any training with any of them, learned how to use them and fix what broke. I even owned my own tractor trailer which I also fixed myself. I guess that's why I never worried about removing and replacing a breech plug. Now at this age, 77, I have trouble hanging a picture! Go figure.
Do you jest? Have you ever built a gun? Bedded a barrel? Installed a breech plug? Ever wonder why barrel makers put an index mark on their barrels with plugs installed? Or wonder why barrel makers like Rice sell tools for removing and installing breech plugs?
As far as removing breech plugs for regular cleaning, hell no. I consider removing and installing a breech plug a gunsmith or gun builder activity. When a crowd can make nearly 250 posts on what to do with a stuck ball with a hole drilled in it, I do not believe they and the general public are ready to begin removing breech plugs, even with help from the knuckleheads posting on YouTube. TC used to sell tools to be used to remove their breech plugs. After numerous warranty claims of damaged barrels and breech plugs, they stopped selling the tools. As far as tools, if someone buys their tools from fine establishments like Harbor Freight, Lowes and Home Depot, removing a breech plug is not a challenge to undertake. No disrespect to anyone, but without the right tools and skill set, leave barrel breech plug removal alone.
Over at Modern Muzzleloading a while ago Idaholewis posted a thread detailing exactly what he found necessary to remove all three sizes of Thompson/Center breech plugs.
For the type of long distance target shooting that he does the interior of the breech plug MUST BE free of any manufacturing defects like burrs, screws that are too short/long, etc. He found that only by examining the interior of the plugs with a high end bore scope did he find some of these defects that were causing his accuracy issues. It was necessary to invest in the proper tools in order to reach the inside of the plugs with hand tools so that the defects could be remedied
First, and foremost, is that Thompson/Center never intended for the breech plugs in any of their barrels to be owner serviced.
Therefore, one has to purchase the aftermarket breech plug "wrench" tool off of eBay in 13/16", 15/16", or 1" size that fits snugly around the breech plug. This is nothing more than a thick, rectangular steel plate with a hole machined in its center to match the silhouette of a Thompson Center breech plug.
Second, was a HEAVY DUTY machinists vise. A good one starts at 50 pounds, and they go on up to 100 pounds in weight. The more the vise weighs, the wider the jaws are, and the farther those jaws usually open.
A heavy duty vise REQUIRES an equally HEAVY DUTY bench to bolt it to. A thousand pound bench is not too heavy. Barring a very heavy bench, the bench should be anchored to the floor, if possible. The last thing a person wants is to have his work bench bouncing around the shop floor while he is torquing on something in the vise. Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.
As mentioned in some of the other posts in this thread, aluminum barrel blocks in 13/16", 15/16", and 1" octagon are going to be required to protect the barrel's finish from the jaws of the machinists vise, and to provide the most secure grip possible.
Last, but not least Idaholewis invested in a 36" long, forged aluminum pipe wrench. After several years of using a piece of pipe as a breaker bar on a shorter wrench, he decided that spending over a hundred dollars for a lightweight, one piece tool to replace two far less wieldy tools was a LONG OVERDUE investment. It also meant that he could now concentrate on keeping the pipe wrench centered on the breech plug tool, and the breech plug tool centered on the breech plug. Without having to worry about the breaker bar slipping off the shorter wrench.
Finally, there's some kind of break free lubricant to soak the breech plug threads in. Or a small, hand held, steam cleaner to heat the metal up thus expanding the threads prior to the attempt at removal.
Like others have pointed out, UNLESS you feel compelled to remove the percussion patent breech plug from your Thompson/Center rifle (for whatever reason), & UNLESS you are mechanically inclined, & UNLESS you are going to invest in, or already own, the necessary proper tools; it's probably BEST NOT TO TRY REMOVING THE BREECH PLUG. Unless you want to bugger up the finish, and put some really nice scars in the steel of the breech plug & barrel. And, possibly ruin the barrel permanently.
For the type of long distance target shooting that he does the interior of the breech plug MUST BE free of any manufacturing defects like burrs, screws that are too short/long, etc. He found that only by examining the interior of the plugs with a high end bore scope did he find some of these defects that were causing his accuracy issues. It was necessary to invest in the proper tools in order to reach the inside of the plugs with hand tools so that the defects could be remedied
First, and foremost, is that Thompson/Center never intended for the breech plugs in any of their barrels to be owner serviced.
Therefore, one has to purchase the aftermarket breech plug "wrench" tool off of eBay in 13/16", 15/16", or 1" size that fits snugly around the breech plug. This is nothing more than a thick, rectangular steel plate with a hole machined in its center to match the silhouette of a Thompson Center breech plug.
Second, was a HEAVY DUTY machinists vise. A good one starts at 50 pounds, and they go on up to 100 pounds in weight. The more the vise weighs, the wider the jaws are, and the farther those jaws usually open.
A heavy duty vise REQUIRES an equally HEAVY DUTY bench to bolt it to. A thousand pound bench is not too heavy. Barring a very heavy bench, the bench should be anchored to the floor, if possible. The last thing a person wants is to have his work bench bouncing around the shop floor while he is torquing on something in the vise. Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.
As mentioned in some of the other posts in this thread, aluminum barrel blocks in 13/16", 15/16", and 1" octagon are going to be required to protect the barrel's finish from the jaws of the machinists vise, and to provide the most secure grip possible.
Last, but not least Idaholewis invested in a 36" long, forged aluminum pipe wrench. After several years of using a piece of pipe as a breaker bar on a shorter wrench, he decided that spending over a hundred dollars for a lightweight, one piece tool to replace two far less wieldy tools was a LONG OVERDUE investment. It also meant that he could now concentrate on keeping the pipe wrench centered on the breech plug tool, and the breech plug tool centered on the breech plug. Without having to worry about the breaker bar slipping off the shorter wrench.
Finally, there's some kind of break free lubricant to soak the breech plug threads in. Or a small, hand held, steam cleaner to heat the metal up thus expanding the threads prior to the attempt at removal.
Like others have pointed out, UNLESS you feel compelled to remove the percussion patent breech plug from your Thompson/Center rifle (for whatever reason), & UNLESS you are mechanically inclined, & UNLESS you are going to invest in, or already own, the necessary proper tools; it's probably BEST NOT TO TRY REMOVING THE BREECH PLUG. Unless you want to bugger up the finish, and put some really nice scars in the steel of the breech plug & barrel. And, possibly ruin the barrel permanently.
I probably should have mentioned in the above post, that unless you are going to make from scratch, a tool similar to the ones being sold on eBay as breech plug wrench tools for Thompson/Center rifles; for ANY OTHER BRAND of rifle's breech plug that you are contemplating removing.......
Then, you are most likely just pi**ing against the wind. Because, from all accounts that I have read, Italian and Spanish patent breech plugs are installed SO TIGHTLY that their removal is near impossible without the best setup, tool wise. Even then, you might not be successful.
Then, you are most likely just pi**ing against the wind. Because, from all accounts that I have read, Italian and Spanish patent breech plugs are installed SO TIGHTLY that their removal is near impossible without the best setup, tool wise. Even then, you might not be successful.
I was referring to removal of the b.plug for cleaning or other routine chores. Obviously if there is a problem (a REALLY stuck ball for example) then removal may be the best way to go about fixing the problem. I still say if the barrel came with the b.plug installed, leave it alone unless you are presented with no other alternative.
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I don’t think its frowned upon to remove the breech plug in that it can’t be done for maintenance, its that it shouldn’t be done because most people simply can’t do it. In doing so without the right tools could damage the gun, mare the barrel. Breech plug removal out to be done with the right tools, a proper barrel clamp for a round or octagon barrel, carefully unscrewed and carefully cleaned by hand with a brass wire brush. Then reattached with graphite grease.
Again most folks simply try to remove the breech plug in an every day vice, this simply is a horrible idea. Wood vices, padded vices are better but a barrel jig is really what you‘d need and they‘re around 50-100$.
Again most folks simply try to remove the breech plug in an every day vice, this simply is a horrible idea. Wood vices, padded vices are better but a barrel jig is really what you‘d need and they‘re around 50-100$.
NorthForm, REALLY stuck ball is still just a piece of lead. I'd rather take a piece of bore size brass rod and file a drill tip at the tip of the rod. Then one can shred the ball to pieces that fall out of the bore. Brass will easily cut lead, but it is unlikely to damage steel rifling.
Brokennock
Cannon
Leave the plug alone and,
GO HUNTING
This is the hunting section afterall.
GO HUNTING
This is the hunting section afterall.
Some people should not attempt to remove the breech plug.
Robby
Robby
Clueless? Why is profanity needed in a post? Is it needed to get your point across? What does the F mean???
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well, anyone with a pipe wrench can take one off ... it's getting it back on (and properly timed) that can be something of a tricky bit
JCKelly
45 Cal.
Absolutely agree with this, the CLUELESS part is so real.
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I've seen those witness marks. Good idea all around.
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I say go for it, and let us all know how you made out. 
When ever purchased new or used, the very first thing I do, is get the breech plug out, There are exceptions like Hawken rifles and the like. Then I clean the crude, junk, vile out of the plug then I anti-seize the threads. Some do some do not, for me it is a must. To each camp their own I am a mad dog, lone wolf. Most call me just a bad name, think of maybe 2 people in the 7 states I have been in to show the weapon/gun/muzzle loader the same respect I do. as I stated to each camp their own.
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Back in the eighties I had a CVA rifle wth a horrible bore, but it shot just fine. I wanted to take it apart to see exactly why the bore was so rough. People at work told me not to remove the breech plug. They said "it's not supposed to be removed", thay said it was "made so that it could not be removed". They said it would "void the warranty". I bought it used from a pawn shop in Provo, so I knew that was BS. I removed the breech, looked through the barrel and put it back together then shot it for about ten years. Made a nice set of target sights for it and sold it at a gunshow. I've always been like that as were many men of my generation. We grew up knowing we could do things. When I was a kid every toy was taken apart. Not always put back together correct but it was all about learning. My Jeep is torn apart right now waiting for parts. Not everyone should take a gun apart. People who are incapable of taking a gun apart (and don't know what they're talking about) should not be telling others what to do. But of course they will, and so the dumbing down of America continues.
