Whoops, I softened a kibler frizzen, how do I repair

[TerryK]

So I bought a Kibler SMR kit. I fire blued the small parts with a propane torch, then dunked them is motor oil. I cleaned them with brake cleaner to remove the oil. They look wonderful, but I also did the frizzen. Before I did the heat blueing, it sparked well. Now it does not spark. I sanded the striking surface with 100 sand paper. It is still barely sparking. Naturally I tried new flints.
So I ordered a new frizzen, but I would like to get this one sparking again. Any course of action?

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Throw it away and use the new frizzen: you will likely never need to replace it.

 

[jdw276]

Send it to jim. Or at least call em and see what his recommendation is.

 

[Nemo Vir]

Don’t lock part come casted, meaning you have to heat and temper anyway.

 

[LRB]

Not wise to heat blue heat treated parts. I think Mr. Kibler uses 1095 steel for his frizzens. If I'm right, heat to red-orange, quench in warmed canola oil. Test the surface with a good file. The file should skate the frizzen face without cutting. If not, test again as it may have a thin layer of decarb. If it is hard so a file won't cut it, temper a good hour at 375° in your kitchen range using a separate oven thermometer for better accuracy. That done, heat the tail to blue not allowing the heat to travel to the main frizzen area. You can temper longer if you wish so long as you do not change the heat setting. I wouldn't bother, but you can if you want. Clean it up, and don't heat blue it. In heat bluing just for color, it is not necessary to oil quench, it just makes a mess and does nothing to help. Heat bluing will not harden parts. Just makes them pretty.

 

[Scota@4570]

Don’t lock part come casted, meaning you have to heat and temper anyway.

No.

They are shipped in perfect working order. His locks are CNC machined and heat treated. They are made with Swiss watch precession. They are the best made and best performing mass market locks currently being sold.

They have an eggshell bead blast finish as sold. IF you don't like that then they can be polished with hard backed abrasive papers and scotchbrite. No filing is needed.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not wise to heat blue heat treated parts.

Puzzled non-expert here. We used to camp at Friendship next to rifle builder John Braxton. His specialty was Jaegers. He made everything on his rifles, down to the screws. Many of his rifles had a beautiful heat blue finish, including the frizzen. I'm sure he knew what he was doing but am puzzled why it would discouraged. Just asking.

 

[Nemo Vir]

No.

They are shipped in perfect working order. His locks are CNC machined and heat treated. They are made with Swiss watch precession. They are the best made and best performing mass market locks currently being sold.

They have an eggshell bead blast finish as sold. IF you don't like that then they can be polished with hard backed abrasive papers and scotchbrite. No filing is needed.

Is this for individual parts as well? I read Jim Chamber website and others that individuals part have to heat treated and mated to original parts.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Frank,
The temp for heat bluing is too high. Modern cast frizzens should not be heated beyond 375-400 degrees except for the toes. Blue color is 590-600 degrees and will soften the steel too much for reliable spark. Your friend may have heat blued his frizzens and later soled them with hardened steel. He also may not have heat blued his frizzens but colored them some other way. It is just fine to heat blue lock plates, flint cocks, and top jaws but don't do the frizzens and don't do any of the internal parts. Moreover, unless you know what you are doing, don't try and heat blue the frizzen spring.

dave

 

[TerryK]

Lesson learned by me. I was leery of heating the frizzen, but I thought the temperature was not sufficient to soften the steel. Well 35 dollars later I can pass on that tip to not heat the frizzen.
Hopefully I receive the frizzen soon, the rifle is finished, and still unfired.

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

Have your frizzen resoled by a good gunsmith. Better than new in most cases.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Just talk to Jim. He’ll tell you how to reharden.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Hi Frank,
The temp for heat bluing is too high. Modern cast frizzens should not be heated beyond 375-400 degrees except for the toes. Blue color is 590-600 degrees and will soften the steel too much for reliable spark. Your friend may have heat blued his frizzens and later soled them with hardened steel. He also may not have heat blued his frizzens but colored them some other way. It is just fine to heat blue lock plates, flint cocks, and top jaws but don't do the frizzens and don't do any of the internal parts. Moreover, unless you know what you are doing, don't try and heat blue the frizzen spring.

dave

Yep. Thanks, that's why I said I was puzzled. Braxton built to die for beautiful rifles. Jaegers were his specialties. He achieved an absolutely knock-out beautiful bright heat blue on his parts. He offered to build me a Jaeger for $400.00 but I declined for budget reasons. He is/was from Graham, North Carolina. Fine person too.

 

[LRB]

Puzzled non-expert here. We used to camp at Friendship next to rifle builder John Braxton. His specialty was Jaegers. He made everything on his rifles, down to the screws. Many of his rifles had a beautiful heat blue finish, including the frizzen. I'm sure he knew what he was doing but am puzzled why it would discouraged. Just asking.

Heat bluing normally requires a heat of around 550°f / 600°f. give or take some. Unless your man had a way of selective heating a frizzen I would suspect a chemical blue. A frizzen heated much beyond 425°f is going to be too soft. One other way would be a well fitted half sole installed with a low temp solder after the heat blue.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Don't resole it. One problem with a sole is it might not clear the pan fence. Take this opportunity to learn something. Fill a medium sized can with canola oil. Get a MAPP gas cartridge for your propane torch at the hardware store and use it to heat the frizzen evenly to bright orange-red. Quench in the oil and clean it up after it cools. Then put the frizzen in your kitchen oven for 1 hour at 375 degrees. If you have a good external thermometer, just check the temp to see if your oven is accurate. Let the frizzen air cool slowly. Then, polish it up to get rid of the heating colors and heat just the toe that rubs on the spring with a propane torch on low until it turns bluish. Stop heating and let the frizzen cool. Don't let the heating color migrate into the pan cover. Keep a spray bottle of water on hand to cool the face of the frizzen if heating starts to go too far from the toe. That should take care of the sparking problem.

dave

 

[MedicMike3762]

I have found that the heat blue works great if you keep it just on the top of the frizzen and stop as soon as the desired color reaches the striking portion. This is my kibler colonial I did in that manor.

 

[LRB]

Uuhh, I don't see a blued frizzen. Only a beginning.

 

[Coinneach]

Throw it away and use the new frizzen: you will likely never need to replace it.

I disagree, don't throw away the Frizzen even if you're replacing it, and/or re-harden the Frizzen or get it done.

 

[sportster73hp]

Another method would be to clamp the frizzen in your bench vise to act as a heat sink and prevent the hard part from softening.

 

[stikshooter]

Or just order 2 from Jim!!!/Ed