Who Shoots Originals?

[Jkil]

Springfield probably made the absolute BEST .58 barrels ever. Superior to what is made today in America out of screw stock.

I have a book called “The Rifled Musket” that contains sketches of targets shot by army testing programs, among a lot of other great documentation. Experimenting with powder grain size and quantity, I have been able to pretty much duplicate those targets with unaltered sight configuration. At 100 yards, almost all shots within an 8” circle from bench, cleaning after every 5 shots. Definitely agree with your statement.

 

[Eterry]

I am not sure what antique means, but I have shot several original weapons. But there might be some discrepancies on a person's definition of original is too. It seems that Brit and feltwad has access to more what we call originals than we do on this side of the pond.

When I saw this thread I thought "What defines an Original?"

I have 2 SxS 12 bores, Birmingham and Belgium, and I have shot the Belgian several times.

But would a Hacker Martin be an Original? How about a Bill Large Barreled rifle?

Nice pics everyone, a good thread, I'm glad it was started.

 

[TFoley]

I think that the aim of this thread is to find out how many people are shooting a gun made before the adoption of the metallic cartridge, and one that is historically contemporary with the era it purports to represent.

So, a Civil War gun of any kind- providing that it is a muzzleloader - and earlier, providing that it is an original and not a any kind of replication 'in the style of'.

The rules of this forum also provide a cut-off point of 1865. If it is a genuine item made before that time, then it would count as an original.

 

[Feltwad]

How do we class a original muzzle loader be it rifle or shotgun to be a true original then it would be before the start of the breech loader which is more of the period of 1860-70.But lets face facts muzzle loader here in the UK were made has late has the 1920,s mostly for the export market and Belgian ones much later. The Forum state guns up to a period of 1865 but there are a lot of guns and rifles shown in the different forums are much later so how do you class these, are they originals or not yes they represent the muzzle loading period. This can be a debatable issue should they be classed has guns built up to 1865 originals , muzzle loader built from 1865 - 1920 reproes or semi original , those built after that till the present day just reproes. Has I said it is a debated question , but if a member has a gun or rifle that is a family heirloom be it 150 years old or 60 years old which he thinks is original has long has he enjoys shooting it that's what really matters
Feltwad

 

[TFoley]

Agreed. I have only three genuinely old blackpowder rifles, and two of them are cartridge-shooters. I have a number of modern replications, too. So I'm out of most of this discussion, but an interested by-stander/onlooker nevertheless.

 

[steg49]

Just found this thread, over the years I have acquired about 30 original (pre 1870) rifles. Always looked for condition before I purchased and then went over with a fine toothed comb before taking to the range. Used a light load and was pleased with the accuracy of these fine pieces of art. Don't shoot them to often as I have my own builds that I trust a little bet more for heaver loads and prolong shooting. steg49

 

[user 49399]

I once met a gentleman who let me shoot his original Austrian Lorenze that was used in the civil war by a confederate soldier. He purchased it from the soldiers descendants. It was awesome just to hold it and wonder where that rifle had been.

 

[52Bore]

Original- I would think it’s the maker himself who was making ML prior to 1865 +/- (pick a date) and it’s continued manufacture under his guidance.
Hawken for example, although Jake passed on early, Sam continued and lived well past the introduction of the cartridge.

 

[Henry Miles]

The OP asked about original, antique rifles. Pretty clear category...

 

[user 36911]

What I wouldn't give to go back in time and walk in the Hawken shop and hand Sam the money for a new Hawken.

 

[user 36911]

The OP asked about original, antique rifles. Pretty clear category...

When you're standing around talking with your friends. Do you stay on topic? That's what forums are but they're online.

 

[RicM]

Well I have two here, and both are 100% originals.
1. 1863 Type 2 Springfield Rifle. Shown shooting indoors. Have recently shot at 100 yard ragets, spot. Shoots flawless and love it!

2. Model 1842 Smooth Bore Pistol. Dated 1854. Tried her out today loads of fun and also shot flawless

 

[Mark Herman]

We have a Powell 20 GA SXS made around 1850 that my grandson shoots trap with. Smokes clays.

 

[Norman Brooks]

Top is a .30cal. Bottom is a .36cal. Bottom on is what I call a repurposed rifle, the barrel is a cut down swamped barrel and the lock is converted from flint. The gentleman I bought it from had it re-rifled from a .25cal. to .36cal.

 

[jonathan hawkin]

I had a couple of modern ones, one flinter and one percussion, never worked as well as originals, have half a dozen or so now and all shoot superbly, luckily here in England there is no shortage of good shooters, and they are cheaper than modern ones

 

[Daveboone]

An 1863 Springfield rifled musket. All correct, as near as I can tell from research. Bought from a shop in Va. Wish it could talk. Been a lot of fun zeroing in on the optimum powder, minie diameter, grease, etc.

I have one too....inherited family gun (but not as far back as the CW). Mine was bought somewhere in the Cortland NY area in the earilier 1900s. Grandpa and Dad shot it, I have not (but have a replica I do). I have the bayonet and scabard with mine...even the original tompion. I need to get more comfortable cleaning the replica without problems before I get into the original, but I honestly see no reason not to. I have a can of Dupont powder from approx. 1920, (forget the exact date) so that probably is when my family acquired it.

 

[SirFrancis]

I had a good chuckle at a lot of the pedantic comments about originality. I’m sure there are a few gray areas, but in general in my experience it’s clear when you handle a gun. This one is a repro from the 50s-80s, this one is more contemporary, this old rusty thing is at least 140 years old, this original Colt 1851 is in nice shape for its years, this poor cut down musket is rough as a cob, this is a gorgeous Pietta 1858 repro, etc etc. I think it’s a very relevant question, too.

I am sure in the ‘50s (when the civil was was “only” 90 years ago) there were a lot more original guns about, prices were accessible if not downright cheap, and most people probably shot the real thing. Then the real things became real collectible, reproductions good and bad began to be made, the muzzleloading hobby gave birth to a lot of skilled builders making them more or less “just like the originals,” and now the default option is to buy a repro according to your tastes and budget, and save the original to admire as a piece of history, but not shoot, at least much, since they’re only “original” once, and using something makes it much more likely to wear out or parts to break in the ordinary course of events.

I own a couple of guns that could be called originals, and I shoot them, but sparingly, like once every few years. I figure if my “collection” is so big I am resolved never to shoot a gun.... it probably means I own too many of them. On the other hand the more recently made guns provide most of the same experience so I’d rather put the scratch, ding, or get caught in a surprise rainstorm with one of them.

 

[Feltwad]

I had a couple of modern ones, one flinter and one percussion, never worked as well as originals, have half a dozen or so now and all shoot superbly, luckily here in England there is no shortage of good shooters, and they are cheaper than modern ones

Northumberland had some good provincial gun maker and smiths such has the Davisons from Alnwick and Newcastle, also Gardener, Burnand, Mather, Greener, Watson , Welford , Bulmer not forgetting Thompson , Collings, Dixon , Wallas from Hexham ,
Feltwad

 

[Rabbit2047]

Northumberland had some good provincial gun maker and smiths such has the Davisons from Alnwick and Newcastle, also Gardener, Burnand, Mather, Greener, Watson , Welford , Bulmer not forgetting Thompson , Collings, Dixon , Wallas from Hexham ,
FeltwadView attachment 79413

One of my guides in South Africa was partial to a Greener 10 bore.... not sure about the loads he was using but it would kill on both ends. The recoil was immense.

 

[Ninering62]

You might not say that if you tried a Hoyt or Whitacre barrel. They both use progressive depth rifling like the originals.

I've been callin Bob Hoyt all week & left messenger messg on his FB page. I'm tryin to get him to make me a custom barrel for my new TC High Plains Sporter in .40 fast gain twist to shoot sized 10mm pistol bullets with T7 charges. Its taking place of the Hoyt rebore TC Seneca thats a .40 1:37 twist.