Who said the Confederacy is dead ?

[Capt. Kirk]

Need to study history slavery has went on since recorded history has been kept, and is still going on today ( what kind of labor produces all the wonderful Apple and Android products we buy).
Lincoln's only concern was control, the tariff he imposed on the southern states was the straw that ignited succession. If you believe it was slavery read Lincoln's 1st attempt to keep the union
A proposed Thirteenth Amendment to prevent secession, 1861 | Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History

www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/proposed-thirteenth-amendment-prevent-secession-1861

the southern states refused even though northern states voted for it

IDGAF what lies you believe, just stop spreading them. The war was about one thing, one thing only, and nothing you say will change that. Pretending that I'm the one that doesn't know history might make you feel better about yourself, but the facts prove you wrong. If you think otherwise you might need to read the Constitution of the CSA. Now, I'm done with you. Ignore.

 

[SOLANCO]

@flashpoint , listen to this song, pay attention to the words. It should give you a feel for the answer to your question. People of the South are proud of their beautiful lands, their rich family histories and their innate resistance to Government intrusions into how they live, work and play. I have met people who have never travelled past the borders of their native State because they never saw a need to go anywhere else. I am a product of southern roots that relocated for better job opportunities, but every year we go back home to spend time with our distant relatives, breath the air, visit old homesteads, farms, cemeteries and family burial plots and remember who we are and where we came from.

 

[Eutycus]

I think alot of it is a generational thing to a certain extent, not only the heritage of the "Old South".The younger folks don't get "that feeling" about history books,guns,cars,etc. Heck books period.They are sure not gonna get excited about some hobby that requires work like gardening or a job like mowing lawns.Besides video games and such what do they have as hobbies? I don't think our parents ever heard us utter the words "I'm bored".

 

[kelljp]

The tendency is to believe popular media instead of documented facts by so many in this time we live in.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

May God bless them and God bless the South !

Deo vindice,
Your loyal Compatriot

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I wouldn't be so certain that slavery went away; it's just got a better PR firm these days. Sure -- the visible physical chains are gone, but they've just been replaced by debt. The whipping has been replaced by (often for-profit) prisons that love to lobby for harsh sentencing guidelines (aka more inmates, and more profit!).

The young software developer sitting next to me at work has 100k in student debt. Even with the good money he's making, that's no small feat to pay that off at the interest rates he's forced to pay. By the time he gets that paid off, he'll be lucky to be able to afford a modest house, at exorbitantly inflated prices due to our banker's inflation of the housing bubble. Until then, he'll be paying through the nose to rent apartments likely owned by Blackrock. Say he gets lucky and pays off a house someday, once he gets older, he'll likely be like the coworker sitting on the other side of me, who has basically become poor with medical debt from health issues arising from diabetes. If she and her husband get only the insulin their doctors want them to have, it's $2400/month. They're supposed to have other meds as well -- one I remember is $5,000/month.

With a recent cancer diagnosis, if things don't go well I'll be in the same boat, paying into the pharmaceutical/healthcare racket that is now the leading cause for bankruptcy in the US (and like most of those declaring bankruptcy, I have health insurance).

To top it off, the slaveholders (i.e. goldman sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Pfizer, Northrup Grumman... damn near every major publicly owned corporation that has wrested the government from we the people) have purchased the TV networks that most Americans are addicted to, and have us all convinced that we're the "Freest Nation on Earth!" while we struggle to pay inflated debts that our grandparents never had.

I think we Americans should hang our heads in shame at what we've allowed to flourish in this country. Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves. They fought to rid themselves of criminals who were much nicer than the ones we're paying homage to.

Slavery existed here and more prevalently elsewhere, The serfs of Europe were slaves. Some would argue that any sort of imprisonment is a form of slavery. .The common law is still that parents own the services and wages earned by their children. Does that make them slaves?

Regardless how you try to hide it, Slavery, that is, holding people against their will and taking away their freedom, is still a black eye against the old confederacy that existed in America. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
My family came from Florida, after the war. I take pride in being from the South, not in being a confederate.
Squint

Few if anyone take pride in the institution of slavery as it existed in the US. Those who claim the war was solely about slavery ignore the fact that 4 slaves states fought with the north. That the Emancipation Proclamation had no effect on those states. The document you so proudly cite, was never the law of the United States of America, and the very right of states to rise up and establish a more responsive form of government was killed and buried at Appomattox Courthouse. in 1865, before it was even a century old.

Many who lament the Southern slavery system are blissfully ignorant of the way northern industrialists treated their workers and families. They often had to live next to the machines they ran. The company store system was designed so workers had to buy the supplies out of their wages at prices designed to keep then in debt to their employers. A worker who got sick or complained was out on his ear, with no pay, no food, no shelter and no where to go. No money to travel or buy food. Feeding a family with no pay and no work left only crime and imprisonment. Freedom for them was often in the form of death. Factory owners had little interest in the welfare of their workers unlike slave owners who had a financial stake in keeping their property healthy. Several universities require studying the difference and similarities of condition of the southern slaves and the Northern "wage slaves" as they were called.

 

[appalichian hunter]

My opinion on Lincoln and freeing the slaves was a farse on his behalf, In the opening days of the war Lincoln was working on a plan to return the slaves to their home countries or to set up a country to ship them to, His main goal was preserving the union. Really think the emancipation came at a time when the north was in a serious position of perhaps losing the war, He needed a victory to pull the plan together, this was Antietam. which most historians say was more a drawl due to McCllean not fully engaging his reserves. And the fact that he figured the freed slaves would flock to the north thus enabling a massive pool of new recruits into the union army, yes there were black regiments in the union army but in the beginning, they were regulated to menial tasks commanded by white officers (see the similarity to southern slavery here) yes any form of slavery is a wrong, and yes it happened, and yes it was a long time ago under a different set of beliefs both in the north and the south. Southern pride has nothing to do with slavery, it's a well rooted heritage and ones knowing where they come from and the efforts one needs to instill that in the future generations that will carry on the traditions, values and way of life. Things that north of the Mason Dixon line some folks would do well to follow suite. I find it a shame that one can fly a communist flag and not one person will say anything about it but fly a confederate flag any one of them take your pick and all H111 breaks loose.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Need to study history slavery has went on since recorded history has been kept, and is still going on today ( what kind of labor produces all the wonderful Apple and Android products we buy).
Lincoln's only concern was control, the tariff he imposed on the southern states was the straw that ignited succession. If you believe it was slavery read Lincoln's 1st attempt to keep the union
A proposed Thirteenth Amendment to prevent secession, 1861 | Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History

www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/proposed-thirteenth-amendment-prevent-secession-1861

the southern states refused even though northern states voted for it

Kind of like whats going on now in the country perhaps.

 

[Some_Mook]

I don't think our parents ever heard us utter the words "I'm bored".

If they did, it was probably once, one time only, at least for the kids smart enough to learn to never say that again in front of a parent...

 

[RFindley]

Thanks Gunny5821 for posting the link to the Alabama history book. Being a native Alabamian I will read it with interest. My GGGrandfather was allowed a homestead grant in Alabama because he was a War of 1812 veteran. His sons, my GGrandfather and GUncles, all fought for the Confederacy and didn't own a single slave among the whole of them. They were farmers. Dead before I was born I never had the opportunity to ask them but I don't believe they fought to preserve slavery (which was a legal institution at that time); I feel they probably fought to protect their native soil. As an earlier commentor said had I lived in that time and culture, I'd probably fought for my "country" Alabama. As far as I can understand the southern states had a right to secede, certainly several northern states felt they had the right to do the same during the last stages of the War of 1812.

Absolutely the preservation of slavery was the catalyst for the war...it's obvious in most of the states Declarations of Secession. Does that make my forefathers white supremacists, or traitors or someone to be ashamed of because they fought for the Confederacy. I would like to think that the institution of slavery would have eventually be done away with but we'll never know that answer. I'm a Vietnam veteran, retired after 20 years military service, Agent Orange survivor and swore an oath to defender the Constitution as long as I wore the uniform. If I put on that uniform today to defend my country I'd have to support that same Constitution. BUT even though abortion and the LBGQT+ agendas are legal in many states, it does not mean I support them. In like manner, just because my forefathers fought for the Confederacy didn't make them traitors or pro-slavers.

I'm an Alabamian by birth, proud of my state, love the South, not ashamed of my ancestors and certainly don't feel as I have anything to apologize for. They may pull down the statues, renamed the schools, streets and military bases, rewrite history but I'm still proud of my heritage.

I step away from my soapbox.

 

[nkbj]

I think alot of it is a generational thing to a certain extent, not only the heritage of the "Old South".The younger folks don't get "that feeling" about history books,guns,cars,etc. Heck books period.They are sure not gonna get excited about some hobby that requires work like gardening or a job like mowing lawns.Besides video games and such what do they have as hobbies? I don't think our parents ever heard us utter the words "I'm bored".

Things certainly do change over time. Courteous behavior for example was expected in the south for a number of reasons, one of which was that not infrequently those prone to impoliteness were forcibly removed from the gene pool. And, the further west one went along those southernly latitudes the more strenuously such prescripts were applied even further and further down the social ladder. Can't say as I fully understand how that came to be but historical records show it to be the case as do memories of my childhood.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Kind of like whats going on now in the country perhaps.

Two years ago, ISIS held slave auctions selling off over 7,500 captured Christian women. Did you hear the uproar? I didn't either.

 

[Mikekj]

Two years ago, ISIS held slave auctions selling off over 7,500 captured Christian women. Did you hear the uproar? I didn't either.

These are also the people (Isis) who destroyed historic statues because they didn’t like their history.

 

[kelljp]

These are also the people (Isis) who destroyed historic statues because they didn’t like their history.

Is this the behavior of a civilized society or mob rule ? I fear our country has bought into "forced" ideology. With all the faults you could point to here, we were the most free thinking and accepting of other's opinions in recorded history.

 

[Artificer]

Many people dont realise that Australia is often referred to as "the Great Southern Land" and that during Lincolns War the Confederate commerce raider CSS Shenandoah visited Australia to refit and was warmly welcomed by the then government and citizens of the Colony of Victoria.

Strangely enough over the many years the old Stars and Bars have been flown here in Australia, the most recent time (that we know of) being by our SASR 2 Squadron blokes often flown when they were working with American troops.

What follows in the attached footage will delight my Southern friends, as for the mock outrage it was all media considered bullshite; and only encourage our Boys to "Carry On regardless".

Thank you for showing still another reason why I hold Australians and Australian Troops in high regard.

At the 1996 World Championships of the International Muzzle Loading Committee, we (the US Team) and the Australian Team both chose to stay at the same hotel in Coventry, the Midlands, UK. This because both teams already had a long history of enjoying the others' company. We often socialized at night in the parking lot outside the Hotel as their pub was rather small, though very inviting.

The night the Australian Team Captain won Australia's first Gold Medal in the competition, we had an unplanned celebration with them, again in the parking lot. I was talking to one Australian couple (very nice couple BTW) from their team and the Lady/Wife felt comfortable enough to say she was surprised the American Team seemed to be treating the event as if it one of our Team Members.

I informed her back in 1972, I got one of the liberty weekend trips to Sydney when I was a Marine Corporal and will never forget how we Marines were so welcomed there by everyone. I also told her that when I returned to the US a few months later, we were denigrated by our own countrymen. I actually compared how badly we were treated in the US while it was going on, compared to how wonderfully we had been treated in Australia. I told her there would always be a special place in my heart for Australia, because of it. As we were chatting, their Team Captain was making his rounds and I congratulated him wholeheartedly.

The Lady then remarked to the Australian Team Captain that she was surprised the US Team was celebrating with them so much. He grinned and replied (I'm paraphrasing) "Both we and the Americans got kicked out of England as wretched curs, but BOTH of our countries wound up doing very well without them." He, her husband and I laughed heartily and while she considered that, she did begin to smile. After their Team Captain moved on, we continued to have a very pleasant chat. I mentioned that as the US Team Armourer, if anyone on their team had any gun related problems to please bring them to me and I would gladly repair them for just the cost of parts. She replied with some surprise, "Well that's very kind of you." I replied, I like most of my Team Members considered them an Unofficial/Official part of our Team, so I was their Team Armourer as well.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Southern blood runs in our family's veins, my Great Grandfathers second Wife was one Anna Gray (known as "The Virginia lady" to us) a distant Cousin who maintained correspondence and immigrated here to marry my Great Grandfather Andrew around 1867.

Anna Grays paternal Cousin was John Bowie Gray (1846-1930) of Stafford County Virginia, who as a VMI Cadet charged at the Battle of Newmarket in 1864. He later served with the ANV in the trenches at Richmond and other conflicts.
The Virginia Lady is much honoured in my family and every female descendant (including my 2 now adult daughters) bear her name, our surname itself was changed by ol Andrew to include "Gray" as hyphenated.

Was Miss Anna also from Stafford County originally? The reason I ask is because that is some of my old stomping grounds and I started the reenactment unit honoring the original, Company I, "the Stafford Guards," 47th Vol Infantry, CSA.

Gus

 

[Stantheman86]

IDGAF what lies you believe, just stop spreading them. The war was about one thing, one thing only, and nothing you say will change that. Pretending that I'm the one that doesn't know history might make you feel better about yourself, but the facts prove you wrong. If you think otherwise you might need to read the Constitution of the CSA. Now, I'm done with you. Ignore.

Most of our Founding Fathers owned slaves, Thomas Jefferson started a whole sub-race of mulattos because he impregnated so many of his slaves. This country was founded by wealthy white slave owners.

It's more like "History not Hate"

Veterans of the Confederate Army were granted full status as Veterans by Congress in 1957.

This is the history of America whether people want to cry about it or not.

Not to mention that a large part of the US Army in 1866 was comprised of former Confederate Army Enlisted Men who helped American Expansion to the West and fought Indians on the Frontier.

Many slaves stayed on as paid Freedmen and worked for their former "owners" for wages.

So much for people to get upset about........

 

[sheriff john]

The "Intolerable Acts" thrust upon American Colonists by an English ruling government are recognized as helping to ignite the American Revolution. So too, did brutal orders by Northern military (and government) leaders continue to cause Southerners to fight back invaders into their homelands.

Laying waste to entire cities, destroying homes, executions of prisoners, etc. were the methods used on a wholesale basis to subjugate the South. Rather than submit to such, many Confederates were literally fighting to stop the tide they knew was coming. Very similar to what happened before and during the Revolutionary War against brutal tactics employed by the British.

Example - during "Federal" occupation, a Union snitch disappeared. Officer in charge executed 12 Confederate prisoners held in the Marion County Jail in retaliation. We have a monument to the atrocity on the courthouse lawn. While many can quote histories of every major large CW battle, few know Missouri was the most fought-over state with more battles fought than any other. Yes, family histories told and re-told keep the Confederate value of fighting to the death oppressors who threaten our families very much alive.

 

[Capt. Kirk]

Example - during "Federal" occupation, a Union snitch disappeared. Officer in charge executed 12 Confederate prisoners held in the Marion County Jail in retaliation. We have a monument to the atrocity on the courthouse lawn. While many can quote histories of every major large CW battle, few know Missouri was the most fought-over state with more battles fought than any other. Yes, family histories told and re-told keep the Confederate value of fighting to the death oppressors who threaten our families very much alive.

Should have executed more, a dozen wasn't enough. They weren't fighting oppressors, they were fighting because they wanted to be the oppressors. They chose to fight a war rather than do their own work

 

[Roundball 54]

Should have executed more, a dozen wasn't enough. They weren't fighting oppressors, they were fighting because they wanted to be the oppressors. They chose to fight a war rather than do their own work

 

[Roundball 54]

Your post above shows your complete ignorance as to why the vast majority of southern soldiers fought in the war. lt is historical fact taken from census records of the time that 85 to 90 percent of the people in the south did not even own slaves and did their own work . I will not waste my time with you any further , but will add this . Hello ignore button and good bye Private Kirk .