Which Cap And Ball Platform, Is the Most Imherently Accurate?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by DevilsLuck, Jun 4, 2019.

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  1. Jun 15, 2019 #41

    nkbj

    nkbj

    nkbj

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    I should have been clearer or you wouldn't have.
    :D
     
  2. Jun 15, 2019 #42

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    The older Pietta .36 Remingtons were also based on the smaller frame.
    But at some point they switched frame size making their newer Pietta .36's with the same large frame as their .44's.
     
  3. Jun 15, 2019 #43

    hawkeye2

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    It must have been a long time ago as my wife shot a Pietta Navy in the early 90s and it was on the .44 frame, just a shorter barrel.
     
  4. Jun 15, 2019 #44

    arcticap

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    I could be mistaken about it being a Pietta since I don't recall if I ever found the maker's marks or not.
    However I sold it as an unfired Navy Arms Pietta New Belt .36 that was made in 1972.
    It had a 6.5" barrel and slightly chamfered chambers.
    The Photobucket photos were from the seller and I took the others.
    The .44 is a Pietta.



    aurora117.jpg aurora118.jpg aurora120.jpg View attachment 10901 P1100487a24%.JPG P1100491a26%.JPG View attachment 10904 View attachment 10905
     
  5. Jun 15, 2019 #45

    Kansas Jake

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    Nice pistol. I would have a hard time deciding to alter it.
     
  6. Jun 16, 2019 #46

    45man

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    This is going to sound funny but the rate of twist matched to the amount of powder the revolver can take is important.
     
  7. Jun 16, 2019 #47

    Grenadier1758

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    The rate of twist does have an effect on the stability of the bullet or ball. The amount of powder will determine the velocity of the bullet or ball and the twist and velocity sets the angular velocity or rate of spin. That's why we have to build up loads that produce the best accuracy in our firearms.
     
  8. Jun 16, 2019 #48

    nkbj

    nkbj

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    articap,
    Do you know what the chambers diameters are on the 1858 Pietta target model .44?
    On mine they're .455"* and I suspect someone reamed them before I became the owner.

    *Reaching as deep as my calipers will go I get .453-.454.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  9. Jun 16, 2019 #49

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    I don't know the exact measurements.
    However the chambers can vary depending on the individual gun or replacement cylinder and when it was made.

    For instance, someone I trust posted this:
    "I have a Pietta "target" model with three cylinders, all chambers measure .4455 to .4465. .451 rb shaves a good ring and rams easy.
    My Pietta "shooters" model has chambers that measure .4515 and uses .457 rb."

    Dixie Gun Works lists the Pietta SS target 1858 as having .446 chambers. but I suspect that can vary by a tiny bit.
    Yet Dixie recommends .454 round balls. --->>> https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...RH0871++PIETTA+M1858+REMINGTON+INOX+TARGET+RE


    And Dixie lists the brass frame 1858 as also having .446 chambers.--->>> https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...RH0875++PIETTA+M1858+REMINGTON+TEXAS+REV+.44C
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  10. Jun 16, 2019 #50

    rodwha

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    I know a fellow who has modified his Colt 1851 Navy to .40 cal as a few were made by Colt for government testing. I’ve often thought that interesting and have wondered whether it was a .40 or .41 cal as we measure it now.
     
  11. Jun 16, 2019 #51

    FishDFly

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    There seems to be a lot of variation in revolvers which I am not knowledgeable of.

    I recently bought a Lyman 1858 Remington which I have not shot yet, but it is on a reduced frame based on the original 1858 .36 Navy pistols, it was made by Uberti. Someone said it may have gain twist rifling which is supposedly more accurate. Will see, I have high hopes for it.

    There is a following with line shooters going to .36 caliber, due to less recoil.

    In line shooters the following is with Remington 1858 for As Issue Matches.

    Hands down the most accurate revolver is the Ruger Old Army in .36 built by Haegerman. If you can find one (which is very hard to do), they bring a premium price. First time I shot it at 25 yards was a 95-2X and at 50 yards it was 93-3X.

    He took an Old Army, sleeved the cylinder with steel inserts, installed a Shilen barrel with a really nice front sight, upgraded rear sight and one of the nicest actions jobs I have seen on a revolver.

    I have a weakness for revolvers and on my wish list is a Rogers and Spencer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  12. Jun 18, 2019 #52

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    I wanted to follow up about how I determined that the Navy Arms New Belt .36 revolver was made by Pietta.
    First off, it was made in 1973 and not 1972.
    Soon after I had purchased another similar 1977 Pietta .36 that was made by Replica Arms - Navy Arms which was clearly made by Pietta from it's maker's mark.
    They both had the same sights, and similar grip and frame, except this one had a 7 3/4" barrel.
    That convinced me that both of these 1970's Remington .36's were indeed made by Pietta.

    p1120029a40.jpg p1120034a25.jpg p1120032a.jpg p1120045a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  13. Jun 18, 2019 #53

    45man

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    The Remington is a wonderful gun but one thing to watch is the chambers are very close so if you use a bullet, gap blast will damage the nose but I have no idea if it is important. I know a ball shoots great and we use a thicker lube that is BPCR thick. A friend uses Crisco because he likes the French Fry smell but it blows all over.
    I shoot the Old Army and hunt deer with it at short ranges because too fast a ball loses accuracy because the twist is too fast. Reducing the charge with a filler shoots much better. But for deer I want more power. Another friend has the buffalo hunter and has taken deer. You can't discount the revolvers for hunting.
    Now to measure the cylinder, there is no way to use calipers. Use a ball gage or slug with pure lead. remove the nipple and you can knock the slug back out with a small brass rod. I have found no problems using the makers ball size.
     
  14. Jun 18, 2019 #54

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    Sorry, the 1977 Pietta Replica Arms Remington was a .44 [not a .36] but had the same sights as the 1973 New Belt .36.
     
  15. Jun 18, 2019 #55

    ugly old guy

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    Solid top tevolvers like the Remington are inherently more accurate (and stronger) than an open top revolver like the Colt.
     
  16. Jun 19, 2019 #56

    nkbj

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    Yo rodwha,
    The bore diameter is .39" and the groove diameter .40", in the neighborhood of 20" twist, the chambers are .004" over groove. I'm using .41" ball.
     
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  17. Jun 19, 2019 #57

    rodwha

    rodwha

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    Howdy! I actually wondered if that might be you!

    Is the .39x.40 bore what Colt made then? Always figured it must actually be a .40x.41 as they were measured by the lands then.

    Your .41 cal Remington is .410” grooves? I know you said you use standard .41 cal lead bullets.
     
  18. Jun 19, 2019 #58

    nkbj

    nkbj

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    I found something online once about the actual dimensions. Seems to me that they were slightly under actual .40 bore. I'll go snoop around.
     
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  19. Jun 19, 2019 #59

    nkbj

    nkbj

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    Found an old advertisement on Guns International that says the .40 caliber piece had .374 chambers and .385 bore. Not real sure that I'm gonna be believing that. Seen different on an auction page years ago.

    By the way, there is a book out there somewhere with more info. Saw it once upon a time in a book shop, a book on Colt's. But I wasn't gonna plunk down the bucks for a new book. I'm more of a goodwill and salvation army kinda guy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  20. Jun 19, 2019 #60

    nkbj

    nkbj

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    rodwha,
    On the .41 Remington, yep, uses .41 molds. The rear bands get sized to slip into the chambers (not below groove diameter).
     

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