Wheat bread.

Discussion in 'Camp Cooking' started by coloradoclyde, Jan 18, 2018.

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  1. Jul 17, 2019 #141

    David Veale

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    Guessing you've read Weston Price's book which covers this subject? I was quite amazed to see his conclusions from the 1930's that are just recently becoming widely known in the medical community -- lots of good wisdom there!
     
  2. Jul 17, 2019 #142

    Kansas Jake

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    Pumpernickel uses rye flour which may make a difference regarding heart burn too.
     
  3. Jul 17, 2019 #143

    NeilMacleod

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    Home made Yogurt or Kefir works great to help digestion, take a few tablespoons before eating other food.
     
  4. Jul 17, 2019 #144

    Loyalist Dave

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    It's been a while since I read an anthropology book. I read earlier this year Guns Germs and Steel, which had some interesting ideas. I also have read something interesting on Syph actually being in Europe several centuries before Columbus, and it having two forms..., a childhood form and an adult form.

    LD
     
  5. Jul 17, 2019 #145

    Eutycus

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    I just now "found" this thread, it looks like an interesting read. After I catch up I'll add my two cents. Has any one gone gluten free on this bread thing yet?
     
  6. Jul 17, 2019 #146

    tenngun

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    People who go gluten free seem to represent about 10000 times the amount of people with a gluten allergy.
    We ‘suffer’from a ‘glut’ of cheap safe food today so it can’t hurt to be mindful of what you eat. I can watch what I eat for a while but then just have to enjoy my sinful food. If i go a few low carb months I just got to have my good stuff.
    Caesar’s men almost mutinied in Gaul over too much beef andnot enough bread.
     
  7. Jul 17, 2019 #147

    Eutycus

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    Some people like to fancy themselves as having a gluten problem cause it's the "in" thing.Got to mimic the celeb. Some movie star hero of theirs claims to have it and got a ton of publicity for it. It makes it tough for the people who really do have it.
     
  8. Jul 18, 2019 #148

    Carbon 6

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    That's kind of an odd statement but, Some people go gluten free with their partners and others may simply be exploring healthier alternatives. I bought some off brand crackers (on a whim) at the store a couple weeks ago. The crackers were delicious, when I was down to the last package, I started reading the box label before I threw it out. To my surprise they were gluten free crackers. I like gluten in my breads, I'll buy those crackers again because they were delicious.
     
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  9. Jul 18, 2019 #149

    tenngun

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    The only people who ‘need’ a Gluten free diet are those with celiac syndrome Or those very few that have a gluten food allergy. That’s very rare. Most people on it experience zero health benefits of not getting gluten. However being gluten free makes you mindful of what your eating, and that’s always a good thing. While a person may not need a gluten free life they get a secondary benefit from living gluten free.
    As far as gluten free products being good many are. And many are historic.
     
  10. Jul 18, 2019 #150

    David Veale

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    Price's focus was actually nutrition. He was a dentist, head of research for the ADA. His brother in law worked for National Geographic at that time when air travel was just becoming possible, and kept coming back with stories of people with no cavities and no dentists. That got him wondering why his own patients were in such bad shape by comparison, so he took it upon himself to travel the world and find the answer to that question, both in relation to dental and general health. His conclusions were that people should be eating whatever diets were traditional in their region (long before the industrial era). Very interesting read, all covering research which wouldn't even be possible today.
     
  11. Jul 18, 2019 #151

    David Veale

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    I have a gluten sensitivity that sent me to the ER with food lodged in my esophagus twice before I figured it out. Most of my life I've always had to wash food down with something to drink and didn't realize that was an allergic condition (called eosinophilic esophagitis). The first time in my life that I was able to eat food without a glass of water at the ready was a year ago when I was on a diet that basically eliminated all common allergens.

    Did a huge amount of research on the subject, and feel I have something of a handle on it now. Basically it boils down to the fact that gluten and dairy are the two most irritating substances people eat. Not a problem if you're completely healthy, but if your gut flora are compromised, the intestinal lining becomes porous and allows undigested food particles directly into the bloodstream, triggering an immune response. That's at the root of all sorts of diseases, particularly anything considered to be autoimmune. This might manifest as arthritis (I had sore knees in my early 30s despite being very active - it went away when I stopped eating gluten), phlegm, or a whole host of other symptoms that we wouldn't think of as allergic reactions.

    I managed to heal up enough that I'm able to eat gluten without complete blockages of the esophagus anymore, but it still causes my esophagus to inflame and slows food down.

    I think the problem is that we consume a lot of really bad stuff these days, and use a lot of antibiotics - all of which have terrible effects on critical gut bacteria. Most all pork and chicken is raised with "medicinal food additives" (aka anti-biotics) such as is those made by my old employer (Zoetis). Roundup is showing up in food at levels that we *know* messes up gut bacteria (Monsanto even has a patent on it for it's antibiotic effects!).

    Go back a few generations to your parents or grandparents who grew up before antibiotics, and you'll hear far fewer stories of allergies. That's definitely the case in my family. Exposure to all of this stuff early in life can mess a person up more or less permanently. I also suspect that plastics used in food packaging are playing a big role, as we've learned that most are leaching endocrine disruptors, and are even being shown to breach the blood-brain barrier and cause cognitive problems.

    I'm guessing the average age on this website is such that most grew up before a lot of these toxins came about - and thus think that a lot of this stuff is nonsense based on their personal experience. Younger generations aren't so lucky. Little kids often get Cheerios as their first finger food, and that's been shown to have 12 parts per million of glyphosate (aka Roundup) when studies show problems starting at less than 1/100th that amount. But here in the Corporate States of America, anything goes as long as the folks making a buck "donate" to the right politician (which is nearly all of them). And we have television to ensure us that the status quo is just fine.
     
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  12. Jul 18, 2019 #152

    Carbon 6

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    Interesting!.
    Were you ever a tobacco user?

    Did you know that there are close to 14000 lawsuits against roundup and it is used as a ripening agent on wheat?
     
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  13. Jul 18, 2019 #153

    Eutycus

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    Celiac is fairly rare but fairly real too. I'm saying alot of people are "faking it". They don't really have it. It's more of a "hey look at me" thing. Pity Party?
     
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  14. Jul 18, 2019 #154

    Loyalist Dave

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    Well that's cheerful news. :confused:

    LD
     
  15. Jul 18, 2019 #155

    David Veale

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    Well... interesting that you should ask! The first total blockage was shortly after I tried smoking a pipe (not regularly, but perhaps once a week at most). Tobacco is (for some if not most people) a super inflammatory trigger as well as having a significant impact on gut flora, so I suppose that's not surprising. The blockages continued for years after I'd given that up though.

    The first real strong gluten effects (though I didn't understand it was gluten at the time) on my knees came in my early 30s (long before trying pipe smoking) immediately after taking numerous rounds of different antibiotics over a period of 9 months to get rid of a persistent sinus infection. Another coworker I know with Crohn's disease said that his doctor used to give him antibiotics all the time for any issue. Suffice it to say that I avoid antibiotics like the plague now, and see them as far more harmful than is generally believed.

    A friend of my sister is a gastroenterologist -- who literally cured numerous people of "uncurable" diseases using fecal transplants to reset their damaged gut flora. Amazing stuff -- and not surprising that it's been banned now for everything but C. Difficile infections until the pharmaceuticals figure out how to make money from it. Gut bacteria/flora are a big deal as we're now discovering (it's now known that they comprise the majority of our immune system), and damaging them with things like antibiotics and pesticides has wide ranging negative effects.

    IMHO, the lawsuits against glyphosate can't come fast enough -- and I hope to see more lawsuits on bee killing neonicotinoids (used to treat all conventional corn/soy seed nowadays) as well. I've lost my bees to that, as have many bee-keepers. Atrazine is even worse than glyphosate (breast and prostate cancer -- and unlike glyphosate, it's in most groundwater nowadays!). Ban those three (as we should, and as has been done throughout much of Europe already) and human health should improve dramatically, though it would certainly change how corn and soy is raised in this country (we'd be cultivating again instead of spraying).
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  16. Jul 18, 2019 #156

    David Veale

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    Though this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who understands the mechanism though which it occurs -- there's been a massive spike in celiac and gluten sensitivity diagnosis since the widespread use of Roundup on food crops. Definitely a strong correlation, with plenty of evidence to suggest that it's also causation.
     
  17. Jul 18, 2019 #157

    sawyer04

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    The more you eat of white bread, the quicker you are dead, is what I have heard through my life.
     
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  18. Jul 18, 2019 #158

    David Veale

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    As a (decidedly unconventional) farmer myself, I regularly meet other (mostly conventional) farmers. Many of them know full well the negative effects of the chemicals they use, but have little choice in the matter. People often blame farmers for this contamination, but I think most of the blame sits with the chemical companies and our institutionalized corporate culture. Once the bar is lowered to allow a particular chemical to be used on crops (which is very easy with the EPA/Monsanto revolving door!), any farmer who chooses to eschew the new chemical will typically be at a competitive disadvantage and thus go bankrupt. Farming is always subject to a thin profit margin, so anything that offers a competitive advantage is essentially a requirement. It's up to each of us to ensure that corporate friendly (just check their campaign donations) politicians are not reelected wherever there's a choice. Similar to farmers, most any politician who doesn't pander to large corporate interests becomes un-competitive and loses office as well, in today's corporately controlled media environment. Sorry... I know this thread is diverging quite a bit from wheat bread, but to me it's all closely linked!
     
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  19. Jul 18, 2019 #159

    Eutycus

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    I worked for a farmer years ago and came from a long line of them. But that was back just about the time chemical farming was taking hold. I miss the good old days of sitting on a tractor all day long cultivating the old fashioned way. Slow, Boring and Monotonous but it got the job done and in a clean way. Even back then I despised spraying. It was easier and faster but somehow I knew it just "wasn't right".
     
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  20. Jul 18, 2019 #160

    Carbon 6

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    The thing that should really scare people is the number of pesticides that have been banned.
    There are more than 141 banned pesticides in the U.S.
    That means that more than 141 times manufacturers produced a chemical that was put into use only to be banned later. Some like carbofuran are world wide bans.
     
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