What year did TC add the Black Powder warning to their barrels?

[oldracerguy]

I have a TC Renegade and a Hawken. My Renegade has the model name on the barrel and the "for black powder us only" warning. My Hawken has niether a black powder statement or a model name. Does anyone know what year Thompson Center started adding the black powder warning to their barrels?

 

[rabjr]

Do you have any idea how old the Hawken is?

 

[Skychief]

Paging Roundball......Mr. Roundball.......

 

[oldracerguy]

Do you have any idea how old the Hawken is?

It has a 6 digit serial number. No idea how old it is, that's why i was asking. By buddies Hawken in a .45 has a 5 digit serial number and no black powder warning either.

 

[rabjr]

Do you have any idea how old the Hawken is?

It has a 6 digit serial number. No idea how old it is, that's why i was asking. By buddies Hawken in a .45 has a 5 digit serial number and no black powder warning either.

Thats pretty low numbers. I have no idea how many T/C's were made in a particular year. I believe T/c started production, mid to late 60's, if I'm wrong on that, someone will correct me.

The early 70's was a bad time for some Company's, Ruger for instance was always being sued it seemed, causing them to ruin their pistols in 73' with the new safety bar and I'm not sure when they started stamping their barrels to read the manual before using too but it was probably around that same time.

I don't know when but they probably listened to their Lawyers sometime in the 70's and stamped the barrels to protect themselves. If not, certainly by the 80's.

 

[Walks Alone]

Do you have any idea how old the Hawken is?

It has a 6 digit serial number. No idea how old it is, that's why i was asking. By buddies Hawken in a .45 has a 5 digit serial number and no black powder warning either.

Thats pretty low numbers. I have no idea how many T/C's were made in a particular year. I believe T/c started production, mid to late 60's, if I'm wrong on that, someone will correct me.

The early 70's was a bad time for some Company's, Ruger for instance was always being sued it seemed, causing them to ruin their pistols in 73' with the new safety bar and I'm not sure when they started stamping their barrels to read the manual before using too but it was probably around that same time.

I don't know when but they probably listened to their Lawyers sometime in the 70's and stamped the barrels to protect themselves. If not, certainly by the 80's.

TC started producing the Contender pistols in 1967. Their first Hawken came along in 1970 (supposedly about August) as proved by it's 25 year anniversary model being offered in 1995. The first Renegade was in 1976 (per ads). The year/serial number thing on the muzzies is mostly speculation, especially those from prior to the fire. Can suggest that a 6-digit serial number is not low for a Renegade though. Mine is a 4-digit and is either a first or second year Renegade. Other folks here on the forum who have posted when they bought there "new" Renegades puts 5-digit as starting about 1978/79 and 6-digit starting about 1981/82 on the Renegades (with 1992/93 rifles being in the 350XXX serial range). Speculation for sure, but its about as close as can be guessed with no support from TC themselves.

I never paid any attention to it before, but next time I get my collection of old TC catalogs/ads out for something I'll try to remember to see if any point to a year they added the warning on the barrels.

 

[rabjr]

Do you have any idea how old the Hawken is?

It has a 6 digit serial number. No idea how old it is, that's why i was asking. By buddies Hawken in a .45 has a 5 digit serial number and no black powder warning either.

Thats pretty low numbers. I have no idea how many T/C's were made in a particular year. I believe T/c started production, mid to late 60's, if I'm wrong on that, someone will correct me.

The early 70's was a bad time for some Company's, Ruger for instance was always being sued it seemed, causing them to ruin their pistols in 73' with the new safety bar and I'm not sure when they started stamping their barrels to read the manual before using too but it was probably around that same time.

I don't know when but they probably listened to their Lawyers sometime in the 70's and stamped the barrels to protect themselves. If not, certainly by the 80's.

TC started producing the Contender pistols in 1967. Their first Hawken came along in 1970 (supposedly about August) as proved by it's 25 year anniversary model being offered in 1995. The first Renegade was in 1976 (per ads). The year/serial number thing on the muzzies is mostly speculation, especially those from prior to the fire. Can suggest that a 6-digit serial number is not low for a Renegade though. Mine is a 4-digit and is either a first or second year Renegade. Other folks here on the forum who have posted when they bought there "new" Renegades puts 5-digit as starting about 1978/79 and 6-digit starting about 1981/82 on the Renegades (with 1992/93 rifles being in the 350XXX serial range). Speculation for sure, but its about as close as can be guessed with no support from TC themselves.

I never paid any attention to it before, but next time I get my collection of old TC catalogs/ads out for something I'll try to remember to see if any point to a year they added the warning on the barrels.

Thats funny then, they must not have produced as many as one would think in a years time. I remember buying one of the first WMC as soon as one came into the shop 88?,89? and it had a low 4 digit ser#.

 

[Walks Alone]

Thats funny then, they must not have produced as many as one would think in a years time. I remember buying one of the first WMC as soon as one came into the shop 88?,89? and it had a low 4 digit ser#.

Don't know Swampy, again just speculation based on what others have said here from memory or receipts on when they bought their rifles. Even that has flaws as who knows how long they sat on shelves before bought. Some here have also posted facts that couldn't be even close to right, so they were noted in my records but not accepted (like the gent who bought his 5-digit Renegade 5 years before TC started making them). I don't know that 350,000 in about 16 years ('76-'92) is low numbers for the Renegade though if you consider that TC started and then stopped production of them what 3 times over the years. Easy for numbers to stay lower when not made for years at a time IOW.

Good memory... the WMC was first introduced in 1989. I've never seen any of the early TC muzzies with less than a 4-digit serial number, so that's probably where they stared the numbering on new models as they came out???

 

[misher]

They made 350,000 Renegades??

 

[rabjr]

Good memory... the WMC was first introduced in 1989. I've never seen any of the early TC muzzies with less than a 4-digit serial number, so that's probably where they stared the numbering on new models as they came out???

I dunno, I was using a Renegade that I bought new in 83'. The year the State finally got rid of a 1848 gun law and allowed us to use rifled muzzleloaders. Before 83' we were stuck with the T/C 56 Smoothbore. My Renegade was deadly accurate but just to damn heavy and always wished for a shorter lighter gun. So when these WMC's were announced, I told my boss I wanted the first one to come into the shop, it had my name on it.

I remember it taking a few months before our hole in the wall could get one. Other bigger outfits got taken care of first I'm sure. But I believe it was sometime around June when we finally got two in and I took the lowest ser#.

 

[Walks Alone]

They made 350,000 Renegades??

Or probably even more if we assume that they started with approximately 1001, were at 353XXX in 1993, and were still making more Renegades after that.

That would be a fairly logical assumption BTW in as much as TC did that exact same basic 4-digit start followed by sequential serialization with their other early firearms:

1967 Contender started with 1001
1985 Armor Alloy Contender started with A2001
1993 SS Contender started with S1100
1996 Encore started with 1000
1998 SS Encore started with S1000

The Contender and Encore data is not speculation. Those records are intact and the exact year (actually half year) a frame was made can be very easily determined by its serial number.

FWIW

 

[rabjr]

They made 350,000 Renegades??

Or probably even more if we assume that they started with approximately 1001, were at 353XXX in 1993, and were still making more Renegades after that.

That would be a fairly logical assumption BTW in as much as TC did that exact same basic 4-digit start followed by sequential serialization with their other early firearms:

1967 Contender started with 1001
1985 Armor Alloy Contender started with A2001
1993 SS Contender started with S1100
1996 Encore started with 1000
1998 SS Encore started with S1000

The Contender and Encore data is not speculation. Those records are intact and the exact year (actually half year) a frame was made can be very easily determined by its serial number.

FWIW

Well shoot, no wonder I've owned 3 guns with low 4 digits. Two we can't talk about the WMC was started with a 2 but I know where that one is and can always get it back If I wanted to. If I didn't have my customs to play with, I would grab it back in a second.

 

[pmwest]

Not sure when they started adding warnings. I have a Seneca that I purchased in the mid 1980’s that has the Black Powder Only warning stamped on it. I do have a Patriot that has no warning on it. The rest are late 80’s or newer and they have a Black Powder or Pyrodex warning. The Patriot was acquired for a more than reasonable price at a gun show with a damaged sear due to some overaggressive file work by a previous owner so I do not have a clue to when it was made except that it has a 4 dig serial. T/C serials are tough to track. Each model and variation of model seems to have its own range of numbers.

 

[Mort Scott]

I thought early TC had Sharon Barells on them. That was one way to date them. Is this not true?

 

[Walks Alone]

I thought early TC had Sharon Barells on them. That was one way to date them. Is this not true?

Even if any of the custom barrel speculations were true (none of which have been proven IMO), at best it would lump them together within the short and specific early time period that those barrels were used on a given model (weeks?, months?, years?). You still need the sequential serial numbers for a more specific build date and for the entire production run of a model.

 

[Geraldo]

They made 350,000 Renegades??

Or probably even more if we assume that they started with approximately 1001, were at 353XXX in 1993, and were still making more Renegades after that.

They made more, as I have one with a 371,xxx SN. It also has a QLA barrel, as does my 25th Anniversary Hawken, so I would guess that they were still making Renegades until 1995.

As for the BP warning, my oldest Renegade, circa 1982 has it on the left side of the barrel.

 

[vince-m]

My renegade was bought new in 1996 from a small gun shop in Vacaville California , has powder warning and a 270000 serial number.
Single trigger hunter model

 

[Bledfor Days]

I have a Seneca serial number 3465, I think, that has no warning or model name on it.

 

[Bassdog1]

As far as custom barrels no one knows for sure as I have early barrels with and Without stamping on bottom of barrel. Rumor was that Spade stamps were Douglas barrels. I have saw Spade, Star, M, and Iron Cross on barrels as well as unmarked and all shot well if cared for and maintained properly.

 

[ord sgt]

I have a T/C Hawken kit that was purchased during the summer of 1983. Serial number 235xxx. It has the roll mark of Thompson/Center Hawken .45 caliber. No markings about black powder use. Don't know if this helps.