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What style rifle?

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When it comes to Ohio rifles the devils horns buttplate of the Vincents are an aboration. Most had more sensible buttplates. The typical Vincent trigger guard is quite common on Ohio rifles. Ornamentation is what sets Ohios apart from other styles more metal was used, and less fancy carving.

Its to the point that everyone's SMR looks like everybody else's, just like T/C Hawkens. From a few short steps back the same is almost true of Pennsylvania rifles.

Just about every muzzleloader fan wants a golden age Pennsylvania rifle, an SMR, or Hawken. Danged few ever consider an Ohio. That gives you a chance to build a dinstictive rifle that won't look like the others in the range rifle rack.

Ohio rifles aren't large game hunting guns, nor are they Indian fighting rifles. By the time the Ohio style full emerged Indians were subdued and big game gone. Ohio rifles were just for small game hunting and match shooting. I like rifles in styles that weren't very common. I have a replica of a 1792 trade rifle slowly going and an Angstadt poor boy, a very poor boy, going if i were to build a fancier rifle it would be an Ohio, just to be different.
 

Mark Herman

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Array,
I've got a like new Vincent by Jerry Kirklin in .36 available right now. Beautiful little rifle, just have to many.
 

pooch156

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The Vincent Ohio rifle is a beauty! But . . . That buttplate looks lethal! Doesn't look like it would be comfortable to shoot. Does anyone have some pics of Ohio rifles in flint?
 

GANGGREEN

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I've always loved the Vincent/Ohio rifles, but I'm a flintlock guy and don't know that they were ever really built with flints. Too bad....
 

pooch156

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I've always loved the Vincent/Ohio rifles, but I'm a flintlock guy and don't know that they were ever really built with flints. Too bad....
I've been researching and haven't found any of the Vincents' in flint. Thinking of doing a Vincent half stock in .36 caliber with a L & R Manton lock. Just to be different. Hopefully L&R has stepped up their quality control. I'm really going to have to think about that buttplate though!
 
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Robby

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The Vincent was the second rifle I made, many many years ago. It was made using as much information as I could gather pre-internet. I don't remember any specifics but there are Flintlock Vincents, I just don't have any of my old reference material to steer you to where to find a picture of one. I went with the percussion because a friend of mine from Indiana gave me the lock. It is a Roller and works like a Rolex watch. The Ohio Rifles generally do have an arched buttplate, the Vincents took that to the extreme, but once you get used to it, its like any other gun and very enjoyable to shoot and I like the unique style they developed. That buttplate does turn some heads though, Hah!
Robby
 
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I've been researching and haven't found any of the Vincents' in flint. Thinking of doing a Vincent half stock in .36 caliber with a L & R Manton lock. Just to be different. Hopefully L&R has stepped up their quality control. I'm really going to have to think about that buttplate though!
I have a recent manufacture L&R Manton, and it works "ok". The hammer doesn't clock 100% right, and it rocks a bit while at full cock.

Having said that, my next build is a Jim Chambers kit, and I probably won't do an L&R again.
 

pooch156

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The Vincent was the second rifle I made, many many years ago. It was made using as much information as I could gather pre-internet. I don't remember any specifics but there are Flintlock Vincents, I just don't have any of my old reference material to steer you to where to find a picture of one. I went with the percussion because a friend of mine from Indiana gave me the lock. It is a Roller and works like a Rolex watch. The Ohio Rifles generally do have an arched buttplate, the Vincents took that to the extreme, but once you get used to it, its like any other gun and very enjoyable to shoot and I like the unique style they developed. That buttplate does turn some heads though, Hah!
Robby
Thank you for the much welcomed information! As I had mentioned in a earlier post I have a Southern mountain in .45 cal and a Tennessee mountain in .40 caliber. Both almost the same. I love them both. So, I have been given had a lot of wonderful suggestions and information here. So with that I have decided on the Ohio Vincent halfstock in .35 caliber. Now for the stock. It will either be Walnut or CM3. The lock will be a L&R Manton.
I have a recent manufacture L&R Manton, and it works "ok". The hammer doesn't clock 100% right, and it rocks a bit while at full cock.

Having said that, my next build is a Jim Chambers kit, and I probably won't do an L&R again.
 

pooch156

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Thank you for the much welcomed information! As I had mentioned in a earlier post I have a Southern mountain in .45 cal and a Tennessee mountain in .40 caliber. Both almost the same. I love them both. So, I have been given had a lot of wonderful suggestions and information here. So with that I have decided on the Ohio Vincent halfstock in .35 caliber. Now for the stock. It will either be Walnut or CM3. The lock will be a L&R Manton.
Hmmmmmm. Well I guess L&R hasn't cleaned up their act. I had the same problem with a L&R Manton and to rework it. Drat! OK, back to the drawing board. Guess maybe a small Siler?
 

Robby

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Pooch, Yeah the line of L&R locks can be a crap shoot as far as the fit of the parts after assembly, I'm being nice. I make a lot of left hand guns so most times they are the only option for me and I'm willing to spend the extra time to make ithem right, in order to have a lock that is suitable for the type of gun I am making. All chambers locks are top notch and the small siler is no exception. The problem is that it would look soooo out of place on a Vincent. If it must be a Chambers lock, the Ketland would be closer to something that might have been used, especially if you round off the tail. R.E. Davis offers a lock that would look even better, they call the Late English that to me would look more proper on an Ohio gun.
0269big.jpg

I'm assuming you are making a right handed gun.
Decisions, decisions, All part of the fun of it all. Good Luck!
Robby
 
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You can see all you need to know by reading these.


Vincents are well written up there. Look at the pictures and you will see things were taken to an extreme by the Vincents. There are plenty of flintock rifles illustrated. Most of the rifles shown will have sensible buttplates.

You might also see if you can find the books Ohio Long Rifles Vol. 1 and 2. There nothing but sharp pictures of Ohio rifles. Perhaps you can find them in a library or get them on interlibrary loan.

If you can't find what you're looking for in these reference materials you just ain't looking hard enough.
 
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Just did a quick search using only one word Vincent and titles only and found quite a bit. Personally i think Vencent guns are the exception not the rule when it comes to Ohio rifles. They're easy to build because Track sells the kits, so that's what most wanting an Ohio rifle build. If you read descriptions at Track you will find at least one other buttplate, a more sensible desgn, listed as Ohio style. If you actually look at pictures of other Ohio guns you will see a variety of buttplates, most more comfortable to shoot than Vencents. Pecatonica has a more reprentative late Ohio stock. There are better Ohio gunsmiths to emulate than the Vincents. They were the Roy Weatherbys of Ohio when comes to design, and just like old Roy's original rifles are deviations form the classic norm so are Vincent rifles.
 

Robby

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I take it you don't like the Vincents😂. I like Ohio style guns, I like Vincent guns, I think they are cool, I have never made a kit gun. I also like LehighValley guns and anyone that knows anything about sensible design will tell you, Don't make one they will bust your cheek bone, and for the most part would be right, however with a little logical maneuvering of design it can be a very pleasant shooter and you cheek bone will be none the wiser.
People have a variety of tastes, likes and dislikes, and like clothes, car's, and food, they're's plenty enough styles of guns to satisfy virtually everyone.
Robby
 

pooch156

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You can see all you need to know by reading these.


Vincents are well written up there. Look at the pictures and you will see things were taken to an extreme by the Vincents. There are plenty of flintock rifles illustrated. Most of the rifles shown will have sensible buttplates.

You might also see if you can find the books Ohio Long Rifles Vol. 1 and 2. There nothing but sharp pictures of Ohio rifles. Perhaps you can find them in a library or get them on interlibrary loan.

If you can't find what you're looking for in these reference materials you just ain't looking hard enough.
I opened the address you posted. Have been reading for the last hour. What a rich history! I'm going to print everything out and put all of the pages in plastic sleeves in a binder. Thank you!
 
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I take it you don't like the Vincents😂. I like Ohio style guns, I like Vincent guns, I think they are cool, I have never made a kit gun. I also like LehighValley guns and anyone that knows anything about sensible design will tell you, Don't make one they will bust your cheek bone, and for the most part would be right, however with a little logical maneuvering of design it can be a very pleasant shooter and you cheek bone will be none the wiser.
People have a variety of tastes, likes and dislikes, and like clothes, car's, and food, they're's plenty enough styles of guns to satisfy virtually everyone.
Robby
It's not that Idon't like Vincents, its just that I think there are better Ohio gunsmiths to emulate. Guys say they really like the looks of a Vincent so they want one, but they want it without looking at all the other options. The Vincent buttplate is an extreme and specialized style. For general use there are better, but still Ohio options. Many Ohio gunsmiths seem to have been of a practical mind. It's said fishing lures are made to catch fishermen more than fish. I think that's pretty much the same when it comes to muzzleloader kits, it's the fancy ones that catch everyones eye, and Vincents are fancy. And of course if you want to build an Ohio from scratch the drawings available are all Vincent. You'd have to really use your head to build an Ohio rifle that's not in Vincent style.

In my estimation Ohio style rifles ought to be more generally embraced. The Ohio style spread throughout the Middle West. It could be found in St Louis when the Hawkens were working there. The Hawkens have Ohio roots, by the way. Ohios are to the Midwest what SMRs are to Appalachia. So why don't more Midwesterners want a Midwestern style rifle rather than a rifle representing someone else's heritage?

Three sets of my GG grandparents came to kansas in 1854 from back that direction. Unless they could have afforded one of Beecher's Bibles, they probably came with Ohio style rifles. For me my interest in Ohio rifles is just a way of being true to my roots, so I study them.
 

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