What is Wrong in this Picture?

[Crew Chief]

I am totally new to flintlocks. I just bought this Lyman GPs rifle and have not shot it yet. The rifle is in great shape for being used except for the pan area. In the photo it shows an area where the flint has been striking and caused some pitting. Before I shoot it, I would like to know that the flint is positioned correctly. Any suggestions for a new guy would be appreciated.
Thanks and a Merry Christmas

Thank you all for your input. Reading all your replies made me think that the original flint, which looks like opaque glass, was too long and it was oriented in the cock upside down. A few hours ago I got a package from TOW with two types of flint. I did two things, one was orient the flint properly and use a thinner piece of leather. That worked perfectly. Now it is too windy to go out and shoot. I will wait until my teenage grandsons come tomorrow for Christmas to show them how the ancient ones did it.

Merry Christmas you all
Chief

 

[smoothshooter]

Can not really knap them in the traditional sense. You could grind or diamond file it back to fit. Flint is just too large.

That “ flint “ is probably agate. Not the best sparkers.

 

[smoothshooter]

Half cock the hammer then close the frizzen, the flint should be about 1/16” or a bit more from touching.

If you flip the agate over with the bevel down it may not strike the edge of the pan. It also needs to be moved to the rear more.
Best solution is to get some actual flints of the correct size.

 

[smo]

I’m almost sure I used 5/8 x 5x8’s in my GPR….

 

[rdavidson]

Mike Beliveau (Duelist1954) has a series I think 3 videos on youtube. It's the basics of flintlocks and is very informative for a new flintlock owner.

 

[fillwa]

This is a good information resource:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/flintlocks.htm

 

[bigstick6017555]

Since we are on flints, here is a question I have been asked many times, how do you measure a flint? I really do not know the right answer to that, I just say If you have access to the flints measure as you sort thru. When advertised, is a 3/4 x 7/8 flint, 3/4" long x 7/8" wide, or 3/4" wide x 7/8" long. I have bought some through the mail that the advertised measurements did not seem to add up. For me, I like to sort and measure.

 

[SDSmlf]

This is a good information resource:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/flintlocks.htm

This article is actually from a post made by a deceased forum member (Paul Vallandigham) years ago that can be found in General Muzzleloading sub forum.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/flintlocks-how-to-shoot-them.38886/

 

[jackpine54]

I think because flints are a natural material and hand knapped they're not always an exact size. They also don't really need to be. I believe a flint listed as 3/4 x 7/8 would be 3/4" wide (edge that contacts frizzen) and 7/8" long. That's just my experience.

 

[Timber Wolf]

My GP Rilfe did the same thing out of the box. I honestly think the hammer has too much travel, and/or the pan area could be wider. I messed with various flints until I “solved” the issue. That is the thing about ordering a dozen flints at a time from TOW, some will be smaller than others.

 

[MSW]

JDSmlf got it in one, with good illustrations. the flint should strike the frizzen about two thirds of the way up from the bottom, so in his picture, it's a bit too low, but this is driven by the geometry of the lock, and although some adjusting of the flint position (and flipping it bevel up or bevel down) can work towards this goal, the geometry of the flint is also a big factor. His other photo is (i believe) one of Jim Chamber's large Siler locks. This lock has much better geometry, and if there was a flint in the jaws and not the wood, i think you'd get a better image of the optimal geometry.

At any rate, if your flint is striking the surface of the frizzen squarely, and you are getting good spark, and you're not gouging the face of the frizzen or bashing flints to bits, by all means run with what you've got and don't worry too much about the theoretical stuff.

At the risk of sounding like a conformist (really, who can call themself a 'conformist' if they shoot a flintlock? OK - how many of you guys and gals out there use a fountain pen? still own a typewriter with a ribbon? shave with a straight razor? ... OK - y'all put your hands back down - you look silly) ... i will join the consensus and "diss" agate flints. i've never been able to get them to spark even half as well as a normal flint. I suspect that agate "flints" is a gimmick to separate muzzle loading enthusiasts from their hard earned, over taxed God- entrusted dollars. You can get regular black english flints, as well as french amber flints, from Track of the Wolf. The amber ones don't work any better (or any worse) in my personal experience, but they do look cool, and if that's a big deal to you, the by all means, you should have cool looking flints.

Good luck, and make good smoke

 

[Eric Krewson]

On cut flints; Bob Roller refaced the frizzen on my lock, a lock he made in 72, he sent it back to me with a cut flint in it. He said he got them from a guy in Germany and they were a world apart from anything you could buy in the states. That cut flint in his lock sparked like a lightning storm and took very little wear shot to shot.

So, there are cut ones out that that are equal to or even outperform our traditional knapped flints, I have seen it first hand but I have no idea of where to order them from. If I remember it right the guy in Germany just sent him some to try as Bob had sold him locks in the past.

 

[EC121]

Gunter Stifter's company sells them. www.stifters-gunflints.de Search for "feuerstein"

 

[FPDoc]

not Bob, but i set my flints up with my finger on the inside of the jaw, snug the leather and flint up to my finger with the blade 1/16 or so from the closed frizzen and square across then tighten the bugger down until i sweat. works for me.

i am old and it don't take much to make me sweat!

If you don't have a torque wrench.. Never tighten it any more than a 70yr old right after a nap can.

 

[FPDoc]

This article is actually from a post made by a deceased forum member (Paul Vallandigham) years ago that can be found in General Muzzleloading sub forum.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/flintlocks-how-to-shoot-them.38886/

If you're new to Flintlocks search for Pauls posts (dang I miss his hugely long explainations .. grin) and take them as gospel. I consider reviewing his thoughts now and then as time well spent.

 

[Winterhawk]

I did two things, one was orient the flint properly and use a thinner piece of leather.

Bevel up or bevel down is determined by the gun itself. This has been debated since time immemorial with some claiming it should be one way and others that it should be the other. The only way to really know is to try the flint both ways and see which sparks better, and which way lasts longer. Bevel down has the flint hitting the frizzen higher so it's more straight on which can be hard on the flint. Bevel up the flint hits lower & at a more acute angle so it scrapes hot bits of steel off the frizzen better, but it doesn't scrape as much of the frizzen. The only way to find out which way the gun likes is to se it both ways and see which gives better ignition. Clear as mud?

~Kees~

 

[appalichian hunter]

Whats wrong in the pic, get rid of that cut agate and use a real flint, there called flint locks not agate locks, just saying.

 

[Crew Chief]

Whats wrong in the pic, get rid of that cut agate and use a real flint, there called flint locks not agate locks, just saying.

I did. Got some real flints from TOW.

 

[Crew Chief]

Bevel up or bevel down is determined by the gun itself. This has been debated since time immemorial with some claiming it should be one way and others that it should be the other. The only way to really know is to try the flint both ways and see which sparks better, and which way lasts longer. Bevel down has the flint hitting the frizzen higher so it's more straight on which can be hard on the flint. Bevel up the flint hits lower & at a more acute angle so it scrapes hot bits of steel off the frizzen better, but it doesn't scrape as much of the frizzen. The only way to find out which way the gun likes is to se it both ways and see which gives better ignition. Clear as mud?

~Kees~

I found that with the bevel up, the flint strikes not only the frizzen but also the pan. These are short flints. With the bevel down, it doesn't strike the pan. I noticed in some of the Youtube videos of this rifle that they also show the flint with the bevel side down. Apparently the design of the cock allows it to go further down on the lock than other makers. Anyway, I got it to shoot.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Good job, that is half of the fun in shooting these things, trying and finding what they like too go bang.