What is this?

[theDuck]

I have this rifle that my wifes father picked up in a trade. I'm not sure what it is. The marking on the barrel is "cast steel". There is also an oval with a capitol E over a LG. The gun is a shotgun and I'm sure the nipple and hammer are not original. The leaf spring is in the tube at the back of the action. The gun is in SW Ontario.

 

[Don]

Looks like a Wesson rifle. But I'm far from an expert on these things.

Don

 

What does the card in the photo say?

 

[theDuck]

I took the picture on the freezer. It is the warning not to let your kid get trapped in the freezer. I never noticed it in the background. Sorry about that folks. :redface:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Think the E L G markings are Belgian. There were lots of Belgian shotguns sold many, many, years ago by Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Wards and hardware stores. Many had "brand" names added by the makers to the quantity retailer's specification.

If you have access to an old Sears reproduction catalog it might be shown.

Someone will come along to better I.D. it.

 

[Zonie]

Yes, the ELG marks are one Belgian proof mark.

If Sears sold something like this it was before 1902. The only muzzleloader they offered then was a cut down Springfield 1863 for $2.90.

Before you get the idea that's cheap, they also were selling a .50 cal cartridge Sharps for about the same price.

 

[theDuck]

I was figuring the proof was Belgian but wasn't 100%. Any idea what action type this is?

 

[Pete44ru]

It looks like a cast copy of the Edwin (?) Wesson (Massachussetts) boxlock action.

I disremember if the original Wessons were also cast, or were machined from a block.

Dixie sold Italian repros, in the 60's, that had cast aluminum receivers, and IIRC the maker was "Replica Arms". I think they were still cataloged as recently as 5-6 years ago.
I had one of the 1960's versions in .45 - that took a .451" ball, IIRC.
.

 

[JV Puleo]

The rifle illustrated above is not a Wesson - its a George Pratt Foster rifle made by the Bristol Firearms Company in Bristol, Rhode Island. Which illustrates a good point... several makers used this sort of one-piece iron action. That a Belgian example exists shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[rabjr]

It looks like a cast copy of the Edwin (?) Wesson (Massachussetts) boxlock action.

I disremember if the original Wessons were also cast, or were machined from a block.

Dixie sold Italian repros, in the 60's, that had cast aluminum receivers, and IIRC the maker was "Replica Arms". I think they were still cataloged as recently as 5-6 years ago.
I had one of the 1960's versions in .45 - that took a .451" ball, IIRC.
.

Umm seeing that is my picture you seemed to have copied from this site from another post, I have no problem with that but please don't refer that as a Wesson rifle. Joe is correct and it wouldn't surprise me to find that Joe P took that picture for that book.

 

[RickD]

I have a rifle like the one pictured but it was made by the N.B.Davis and company and its in .44cal..

 

[curator]

Ed Wesson, Davis, Foster, and Ethan Allen all produced rifles and shotguns with this design in the 1860s and 70s. I have a Foster/Bristol and an Allen that are so much alike I suspect the parts will interchange. Possibly one of them or an independant parts supplier made the castings and the gunsmiths finished the actions on their own. I repared an Ethan Allen 20 gauge shotgun with this action and it had a barrel marked "LGE." Imported barrels were pretty common in the US at that time.

 

[Zonie]

Could it be possible that "N.B.Davis" is actually "N.R. Davis"?

I don't see a listing for a N.B. but "AMERICAN FIREARMS MAKERS" by A.M. Carey shows a N.R. Davis producing guns at Assonett, Massachusetts in 1853-1870. They made both percussion rifles and shotguns and changed the company name to "N.R Davis & Co" in 1861.

 

[RickD]

Yes sorry N.R. Davis and Company

 

[theDuck]

Thanks for the responses folks. The 1860-70 things gives me an idea of age. I think it must be a casting. I took a quick look at how to machine it and figured a casting would be an easier way to go.
The reason we are here today is because people in the past were a lot smarter than give them credit for.

 

[JV Puleo]

Nah... I didn't take the picture, but I have handled the gun more than once. GP Foster rifles turn up once in a while - that one is in very nearly new condition if I remember correctly.
Wesson used that style action but he probably didn't originate it and he wasn't the only one to use it. It is probably a modification of a "watch spring" type action invented and patented by Warren Andrews around 1836. I believe they all pre-date the CW. I know that the Foster ones do because he went on to be the chief engineer of the Burnside Rifle Company and is the inventor of the combination trigger guard and lock that was used on all Burnside carbines after the 1st model. Bristol Firearms turned into the Burnside company and I am pretty certain that all production except the breech loading carbines stopped as soon as the CW began.

As to supplying parts to other companies, I would not be surprised to find that Bristol Firearms was the source of all those actions, especially as they specifically advertised themselves as suppliers of gun components. If you have a copy of Ray Riling's Powder Flask book with the dust jacket, the letterhead shown at the bottom right on the front is from Bristol Firearms, it shows that type of rifle and offers "interchangeable" gun parts.

I've never seen a Belgian copy but its not impossible. It could also just be that whoever put the gun together used a Belgian barrel.

As to casting - they are malleable iron forgings. Cast iron was unsuitable in any case. They may have been made from a low grade of iron. The surfaces often have flaws and I suspect the engraving was often used to obscure them.

 

[Metalshaper]

I don't know? Looks very muck like a Tinsley Box lock??

Check these,, there was a rifle version for sale once on Track of the Wolf's site.. My Bud sent me the pics.. Might want to ask Track??

Respect Always
metalshaper

 

[theDuck]

I'd say the Tinsley box lock is almost exactly it. The difference is on the left side. The one I have has one screw in the centre of the disc cover plate that also goes into the tumbler to rotate on. The Tinsley pictured by Metalshaper has 2 screws holding the cover plate closed.
Even the stock shape and wood is close. It could be someone put a Belgian made shotgun barrel on it.