What brands would you not recommend and why?

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So what brand muzzloader or cap and ball would you not recommend and why? Was it crappy workmanship, customer service or other?

Myself I was not happy with Traditions customer service.
 
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I have owned Thompson Center, Lyman and custom rifles with quality parts such as a Chambers lock. I also have pistols from Pedersoli , Ruger and Traditions. I find that the Traditions locks are far inferior to all the others I've used. My nephew who is getting into BP asked me recommendations and I told him "almost any brand but a Traditions". Your experience and opinion may be different from mine.
 

Phil Coffins

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Look through these posts about replacing triggers, barrels and locks. That tells a lot about what guns have poor parts. Trouble is many times a fellow will change parts just because others have done it. Traditions have a couple of decent guns but over all I’d start by spending a bit more rather then spending again on replacement parts after learning where the problems are.
 
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I purchased a Pedersoli pistol kit. Barrel had an obstruction in it that I had to remove, and the lock was terrible, so I had to send it to Brad Emig for a tune up. Will never buy a Pedersoli again.
 

hanshi

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I would not buy another Pedersoli mainly due to their high prices and sometimes lousy flint locks. I have had good service from Traditions and have owned more than one of them. The little .32 Crockett is my favorite and I'd dearly love to own another. I accidentally broke the trigger guard on my DeerHunter. I called Traditions and ordered a new one. The price was quite reasonable, the lady was very polite and they were speedy with the delivery. I've never owned a Traditions flintlock so can't comment on them.
 

mmb617

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I've noticed that members here generally do not like Traditions products. I own 4 Traditions rifles and a Traditions Trapper pistol and in general I like them. These are all flintlocks. However, I do think Traditions frizzens are a crap shoot. Some of them don't spark well at all right from day one. I'd guess those are ones that weren't properly hardened.

My Deerhunter, Mountain and Kentucky rifles have all sparked well with the original lock and frizzen on them. Between them they have a couple thousand shots through them and I usually get 60-80 shots on one flint.

The Trapper pistol just wouldn't give me a good spark when I bought it. I tried multiple flints before I decided to change the frizzen and see if that helped. As soon as I made that change it started working well. The same thing happened with my Hawken rifle. A new frizzen took care of the problem.

In light of my experience with these two I can't help but think they were shipped with defective frizzens, but the good news is that frizzens for them are cheap and readily available. I didn't contact Traditions about these problems I just bought new frizzens, so I can't comment on their customer service.
 

Mustang65

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Like anything else....go to any forum whether it be a modern firearms forum, ML forum, Flintlock forum, diesel forum, chevy forum, etc., you are always going to find biased opinions. The best you can do is buy and decide for yourself. If it's not to your liking, you may be able to improve it to your liking. Example: I was looking for the best oil for my powerstroke 7.3L! Every forum I went to, 20 different oils were the best, and the same 20 oils were the worst! Then I asked about AMSOIL....big mistake!! Replies: amsoil too expensive, amsoil no good, this is better, that is better. Sooooo.....decided to watch some youtube videos of different oil comparisons for flows and lubricity in sub-zero to extreme heat temps. I put amsoil in all my vehicle engines, tranny's and differentials!! My point is....IT'S A CRAP SHOOT!!
 

Johnny Tremain

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ANY third world produced production gun. The last rifle and the current hand gun were both needed repair before they could be fired safely.

Pedersoli was the first bad rifle I bought in 1990. Got 8 shots off and the frizzen went down range, took 10 months to get another one made. When the woman I was with split, She took that rifle with her.
Then I built the current one I have close to 20 years ago.

I swore I NEVER would buy another production gun......
My best bud gave me a 2001 Pietta 1860.
Since then Ive invested over $200 to get it work well, Monday the cones will be here,
and back to the range we go to see if it works right.

Build your own, and get much better parts. There is no production lock that can come close to a Chambers or L&R lock.
 

Eterry

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I bought a left hand L&R Queen Anne lock for a project and it was a Disaster!!! So much so I sent it to Dave Person. He wrote an entire article on ALR about what a wreck it was and all its deficiencies.

It was the only left hand flint for my project, so they had me in a box. Thanks Dave, your the BEST.
 
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You get what you pay for. Traditions can’t be compared to a custom that cost five to ten times as much.
However it puts ball an target, looks good and is a hoot to shoot.
There is always snobbery
However I’ve gotten good products from crazy crow. I have a indan made knife from crazy crow that’s every bit as good as the American made knife that looks the same I got from Townsend’s
Generally the more you spend the better your product is. And a flint lock on the cheaper gun may be frustrating to use. But replacements are avalible for that
 
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Thompson Center have served me well and with few problems, and I own and have owned a bunch. Unfortunately they've not been made for a number of years now. I have a Lyman Trade Rifle in .54 I believe was a great value. I've wished I bought an early Lyman Grest Plains Rifle.

Were I looking to get into muzzle loading I'd try to find a clean Thompson Center, the Hawken is the most common model.

This being said if you got the bug and dough to go with it the world is your oyster, go for a custom build.
 
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Mustang65

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As Phil Coffins sez, read posts about problems and you'll see a lot more folks asking help about one brand over most others. While most of the problems can be cured who wants to solve needless problems when a different brand will get you shooting without as many things to correct?
Many times the problem is the operator, not the product that they complain about. You know, lack of certain skills.
 

Mustang65

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You get what you pay for. Traditions can’t be compared to a custom that cost five to ten times as much.
However it puts ball an target, looks good and is a hoot to shoot.
There is always snobbery
However I’ve gotten good products from crazy crow. I have a indan made knife from crazy crow that’s every bit as good as the American made knife that looks the same I got from Townsend’s
Generally the more you spend the better your product is. And a flint lock on the cheaper gun may be frustrating to use. But replacements are avalible for that
Not necessarily.....
 
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Others have provided sage advice. If I was starting over, I'd try to find something for which replacement parts are readily available or have a list of competent gunsmiths handy. "Old Classics" made by the tens of thousands may not bring "oohs and ahs" from gun snobs, but won't leave you with a wallhanger sporting an irreplaceable part, either. Price isn't always the best indicator of reliability. There's no such thing as "customer service" if the company's out of business or longer supports the particular gun you have in your hand.
 
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Many times the problem is the operator, not the product that they complain about. You know, lack of certain skills.
Mustang65 I do agree to a certain point but I think what Phil and I are pointing out is that many problems faced by newbies with their first ML guns are product specific as opposed to the "I got my ram rod stuck" type of post. My personal experience was buy a T/C Hawken in the 1970's and have no rifle problems at all in 50 years (other than the stuck ram rod). Then buy a CVA Colonial pistol that had the lock returned to CVA 4 times until they got it right. This was the typical reputation of those brands at the time although the CVA problem was worse than normal.
 
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ANY third world produced production gun. The last rifle and the current hand gun were both needed repair before they could be fired safely.

Pedersoli was the first bad rifle I bought in 1990. Got 8 shots off and the frizzen went down range, took 10 months to get another one made. When the woman I was with split, She took that rifle with her.
Then I built the current one I have close to 20 years ago.

I swore I NEVER would buy another production gun......
My best bud gave me a 2001 Pietta 1860.
Since then Ive invested over $200 to get it work well, Monday the cones will be here,
and back to the range we go to see if it works right.

Build your own, and get much better parts. There is no production lock that can come close to a Chambers or L&R lock.
Everyone’s skill set is ultimately different. Many don’t have the skills to build their own guns and have to rely on ‘production’ guns. Following your advice, if for example, one were to buy a truck that just wasn’t up to their standards, they should just ‘build their own’, and not rely on ‘production trucks’ (or vehicles), correct? Plenty of folks out there building their own vehicles….
 

DOUBLEDEUCE 1

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Interesting question. I’ve had absolute miserable experiences with two custom rifle makers. Both of whom I would never recommend. For one project, I ordered a Getz barrel. After many years of nothing but excuses, I finally received the item purported to be a custom flintlock rifle. Immediately after opening the crate containing the rifle, I ran the ramrod down the barrel only to find a sizable obstruction. It was removed carefully and photographed. The bore was a sewer pipe. The self proclaimed custom builder could not or would not explain how the bore was so damaged. He offered nothing.

I contacted Getz via telephone. I explained my concerns for the barrel. I sent the barrel back to Getz for his inspection and opinion. I also told Getz I would pay to have another barrel made. The barrel was inspected. Getz did not clam any responsibility for the condition of the barrel. I reminded him I would pay for another barrel.

To this day, ten plus years later, I have not received the damaged barrel back, or the new one I requested. No answers on the phone, nothing. So, Getz gets a thumbs down from me.
 
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Interesting question. I’ve had absolute miserable experiences with two custom rifle makers. Both of whom I would never recommend. For one project, I ordered a Getz barrel. After many years of nothing but excuses, I finally received the item purported to be a custom flintlock rifle. Immediately after opening the crate containing the rifle, I ran the ramrod down the barrel only to find a sizable obstruction. It was removed carefully and photographed. The bore was a sewer pipe. The self proclaimed custom builder could not or would not explain how the bore was so damaged. He offered nothing.

I contacted Getz via telephone. I explained my concerns for the barrel. I sent the barrel back to Getz for his inspection and opinion. I also told Getz I would pay to have another barrel made. The barrel was inspected. Getz did not clam any responsibility for the condition of the barrel. I reminded him I would pay for another barrel.

To this day, ten plus years later, I have not received the damaged barrel back, or the new one I requested. No answers on the phone, nothing. So, Getz gets a thumbs down from me.
i had great luck with Don Getz barrels years ago, but Don passed away 6-7 years ago and his son John took over Getz Barrel. I have not personally dealt with him, but his reputation has not been the best.
 
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