What am I doing wrong? (Cleaning)

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Donny2guns

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I’ve read many posts trying to figure out my surface rust issue, maybe I’m expecting too much. But it seems like no matter what I try, I always get a small amount of flash rust inside my smoothbore and .36 flintlocks. Here my process:

1. full the bore with very hot water with a drop or two of dawn. Let it sit for a few minutes.
2. Run a brush (caliber specific) down the bore to loosen any powder res, lead fowling etc.
4. use a scraper to scrape the breech area.

5. Pour the water out and fil again and dump into drain.
6. Run patches down the barrels until clean, then I use a couple patches with isopropyl alc down to help get rid of moisture.
7. I then run dry patches down until no moisture is detected.
8. I then run patches soaked with Fluid Film down the barrels to help with flash rust.
After about 24 hrs I always start to develop small amounts of flash rust in the barrels, in the rifle there is a little rust in the grooves running the length of the barrel. I also have a bear of a time getting all the powder residue out of the edges of the breech inside the chamber. Any ideas???
 

58 Caliber

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1. full the bore with very hot water with a drop or two of dawn. Let it sit for a few minutes. I use room temperature water plain. Let it soak for 10 minute or so while I clean the lock.
2. Run a brush (caliber specific) down the bore to loosen any powder res, lead fowling etc. I pour out the water and run a couple of patches down the bore then refill with room temperature water and let it sit 5 minutes of so.
4. use a scraper to scrape the breech area. I don't use a scraper.

5. Pour the water out and fil again and dump into drain. Already drained in previous steps.
6. Run patches down the barrels until clean, then I use a couple patches with isopropyl alc down to help get rid of moisture. I do the same except I use WD40.
7. I then run dry patches down until no moisture is detected. I am already done.
8. I then run patches soaked with Fluid Film down the barrels to help with flash rust. Don't know what fluid film is.
After about 24 hrs I always start to develop small amounts of flash rust in the barrels, in the rifle there is a little rust in the grooves running the length of the barrel. I also have a bear of a time getting all the powder residue out of the edges of the breech inside the chamber. Any ideas??? I do not have that problem. If I am not going to shoot the gun for a while I will run a patch soaked in Barricade.

Good luck.

Note: For some guns I use a magnetic flushing tool designed by Dave Crissali.
 

Donny2guns

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1. full the bore with very hot water with a drop or two of dawn. Let it sit for a few minutes. I use room temperature water plain. Let it soak for 10 minute or so while I clean the lock.
2. Run a brush (caliber specific) down the bore to loosen any powder res, lead fowling etc. I pour out the water and run a couple of patches down the bore then refill with room temperature water and let it sit 5 minutes of so.
4. use a scraper to scrape the breech area. I don't use a scraper.

5. Pour the water out and fil again and dump into drain. Already drained in previous steps.
6. Run patches down the barrels until clean, then I use a couple patches with isopropyl alc down to help get rid of moisture. I do the same except I use WD40.
7. I then run dry patches down until no moisture is detected. I am already done.
8. I then run patches soaked with Fluid Film down the barrels to help with flash rust. Don't know what fluid film is.
After about 24 hrs I always start to develop small amounts of flash rust in the barrels, in the rifle there is a little rust in the grooves running the length of the barrel. I also have a bear of a time getting all the powder residue out of the edges of the breech inside the chamber. Any ideas??? I do not have that problem. If I am not going to shoot the gun for a while I will run a patch soaked in Barricade.

Good luck.
Thanks for the reply. I used to use barricade but was getting the same results. The fluid film has no solvents in it and is lanolin based so I figured it might help and have read the same on here. I’m thinking maybe I should run some 4/0 steel wool or green scotch brite down the barrels. Even after immediate cleaning before rust forms, I run my bore camera down and notice dull surface imperfections, not pitting but what the surface of steel may look like before being polished.
 

CTShooter

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I pour boiling water down the bore till it runs out clear. Swab the bore with oiled patches once it’s cool enough to handle, wipe it down with a silicone rag. Done
 

Gsyme

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Hi Donny, I don't have any good advice for you, just some empathy because I have the same issue. You're not alone. I am new to muzzleloading but I like how elegantly simple CTShooter's method is here. Maybe I'll try that next. Like seasoning a frying pan.

I've wondered if the amount of iron in a person's well water makes a difference. I am on a well and our water has lots of iron and sulphur. What about you? Also, I live in a humid climate which probably doesn't help. And I'm switching from Pyrodex to real black powder based on lots of advice I've read here.
 

Okie Hog

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1. Before leaving the range the bore is swabbed with a patch wet with Windex with vinegar. The slightly acid Windex dissolves the fouling which is base.

2. At home the bore is swabbed with a couple patches wet with tap water, followed by dry patches.

3. Bore is swabbed with a patch wet with WD-40, followed by a dry patch.

If the rifle will be fired within a few weeks it is put away. If the rifle will be stored the bore is swabbed with a patch moistened with Militec 1 or Mobil 1.

My rifles don't rust.
 

kje54

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I’ve read many posts trying to figure out my surface rust issue, maybe I’m expecting too much. But it seems like no matter what I try, I always get a small amount of flash rust inside my smoothbore and .36 flintlocks. Here my process:

1. full the bore with very hot water with a drop or two of dawn. Let it sit for a few minutes.
2. Run a brush (caliber specific) down the bore to loosen any powder res, lead fowling etc.
4. use a scraper to scrape the breech area.

5. Pour the water out and fil again and dump into drain.
6. Run patches down the barrels until clean, then I use a couple patches with isopropyl alc down to help get rid of moisture.
7. I then run dry patches down until no moisture is detected.
8. I then run patches soaked with Fluid Film down the barrels to help with flash rust.
After about 24 hrs I always start to develop small amounts of flash rust in the barrels, in the rifle there is a little rust in the grooves running the length of the barrel. I also have a bear of a time getting all the powder residue out of the edges of the breech inside the chamber. Any ideas???
I let mine sit with water in it no more than 30 seconds, repeat until water comes out clear. Any water in or on the barrel should evaporate almost immediately, if not maybe your water isn't hot enough.
I've never used soap only hot water then when done I swab it with either Hoppes or RemOil, never had flash rust.
 

Sidney Smith

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I always swab the bore at the range with my alcohol/Murphys oil soap mixture, followed by an oil patch before I leave.. Then at home it's hot water with a small amount of Murphys oil soap, followed by clean hot water, then dry with patches followed by blowing warm air through the bore with an old hair dryer. The last step I do is soak a patch or two with CLP and thoroughly coat the bore. Has worked for me for decades.
 

Donny2guns

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Thanks for the replies all, giving me some things to try. Seems like cleaning is a lot like working up the right load!
 

TreeMan

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I’ve found that some oils when left a few days will leave a residue on a clean patch that looks like rust but actually isn’t rust. I have some fluid film that is extremely old. It is brown sitting in the jar I have it in. Try something else like good ol WD 40. Let it sit a few days after cleaning with the WD40 in the barrel and then run a patch down the barrel. My guess is it isn’t rust. Bore butter if let you set a while with turn a patch brown.
 

plmeek

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I’m thinking maybe I should run some 4/0 steel wool or green scotch brite down the barrels...I run my bore camera down and notice dull surface imperfections, not pitting but what the surface of steel may look like before being polished
Polishing the bore may be a good idea. The flash rust will form more readily on a rougher surface because it has more "activation sites" for the oxidation reaction to occur. Heat also aids the oxidation, so I recommend dispensing with the hot water and using room temperature water.

On the guns I have that show a tendency to flash rust, I put a few drops of Ballistol in my rinse water. That little bit of water soluble oil seems to help inhibit the rust.

Once your bore is clean and dry, you want a rust preventative that creates a film that prevents the oxygen in the air from contacting the metal. The rust is iron oxide so if you prevent the iron and oxygen from contacting each other, you prevent the rust.
 

Versanaut

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Not a metallurgist here and so, by no means an expert and I'll preface my comments with my company lawyer's favorite response.. "It Depends".

You are going to find a mixed bag of folks on here from having a worse problem, the same problem, or varying degrees of success preventing rust altogether. It really boils down to the metal used to make your barrel. Even barrels from the same lot are going to vary to some degree in their makeup. Just like we like to say each barrel has its favorite load, they also have a unique oxidation rate. Some iron compositions just rust faster (some irons even combust upon exposure to O2. Pyrophoric I think is the term) Nothing we can do about the bones of our barrels, so we just have to stop the O2 and iron from mingling.

The outside is easy to treat and to keep up with in our battle. We can see it, access it, and treat it, and address it on occasion. But the inside is a tough nut to crack. It's not treated like the outside. Even if you did, you'd blast it off after every shot. So, we have different barrel compositions and sharp or radius riflings, varying # of lands, smoothbores, scratches, previous pitting, etc etc. It's tough to be sure that EVERY bit of fouling is out of the nooks and crannies. It's equally as difficult to make sure your prevention (oil or otherwise) makes it INTO all the nooks and crannies, scratches, grooves, pits and otherwise irregular surfaces and features.

Bottom line, if you just have "one of those barrels", you will have to work harder to make sure you got all the crevices clean and be a little more generous with your coating of choice. A couple good options already mentioned above. Stay away from the petroleum based oils and be sure to run a couple dry patches down before ya load.
 

dave951

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Switch to Windex with ammonia. Chemically it neutralizes the acidic fouling and pretty much dissolves it. Wipe dry. Follow with Alcohol patch. Then dry patch. Oil and done.
 

Flintlock

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Use water, cold or warm. People have been cleaning guns for 500 years before all the chemical crap. use damp patch. rinse-repeat till clean, use dry patches, then let sit muzzle down for a bit, one more dry patch then oil, olive oil, auto oil, bear oil, whatever. I shoot almost ever week, sometimes several times a week for 30+ years and don't have a problem.
 

.36Rooster

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You need to be putting a good coat of oil on a patch and ramming it down that bore as soon as the hot water evaporates, which only takes a minute if you're using boiling water like i do.

Once the rust starts, it will always be there. And your patches will just be red once you get the black off. So best thing to do with a good bore is keep it coated with oil. If theres oil on it, it wont rust. If theres no oil, then you're bore is at the mercy of the ambient humidity and temperature change.
 

Whughett

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I’d suggest switching to Ballistol as the lubing agent. It’s water soluble. A patched soaked with it ram down a bore will mix with any water or moisture there. When the h2o evaporates the oil is left behind. Cleaning revolvers single shots and carbines for a long time and no flash rust.

Mixed 70/30 or there bouts it’s an excellent cleaning agent for range use. It’s PH neutral.
I don’t use any other product but it and Dawn on my firearms. Vinegar will remove blueing.
 

anaconda44

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Use what herself house uses for his had made rifles. Type F trans fluid it has waxey component to it and it won't ruin finish on gunstocks . Keeps the rust from starting but you need to swab barrel out with rubbing alcohol before shooting.
 

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