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We need a forum category for Ignition ..powder n bullets ..anybody interested???

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I realize there are other forums devoted to projectile casting .. but the crowd in the one I visit are really unmentionable shooters who have just a toe in the molten lead pot as far as muzzle loaders go

We talk guns here..we talk knives here ..we talk all kinds of stuff but we do not have a place to talk about the flints, percussion caps, powder, projectiles, patches, wads ..all of which are the very things that make just so much wood and iron we all dearly love to come alive ..to do our bidding ..the very thing or collection of things that must be "tuned" ..together ..to be harmonized is such a way to allow our M/L's to please us ..it makes no difference if one member is demanding a ragged hole at 50 yards or to be able to tune a just so so rifle to be a minuet of deer group shooter at 75 yards ..we've got to have a place to exchange our successes and failures

And I am tired of being told "go to or join the NSSA when I ask a tech question in the field of munitions ..I have tried to join NSSA ..Over $100 first year and if you have not joined a troop or whatever you cannot renew ..guess what ..no troop anywhere near me ..I have been bounced around from guy to guy at NSSA and each new guy says sorry I am not the commander for your area but I will find out ..has not happened ..I am not dogging the NSSA ..the guys I have talked to have been very cordial and took their own time to respond (and are volunteers I assume) but no cigar as of this date ..but I still have the $100 earmarked ..in the mean time get us a place to talk turkey on this forum about tuning the load to the rifle

Case in point ..I am casting with a new to me mold Lyman 580213 525gr thin skirted .580 dia .58cal ..the old original with the pull out the bottom plug

first run of about 50 it took about 20 to get plug, mold n all hot enough to begin flowing no wrinkles,fully formed skirt, fully formed lube grooves etc.

However after cooling ..I started weighing and in 30 good external appearance minies the weight range ran from 525gr to 522gr ...

Closer inspection and sorting gave me 3 groups of roughly 10 to a group as follows:
525/524 ---interior inspection of hollow APEX displayed fully filled interior or slight pin hole only at apex
523 ---interior showed deeper pinhole void in the apex
522 ---interior at apex displayed larger and deeper pinhole

You folks that cast know that different molds, bullet designs, calibers etc call for different methods of holding the mold ..how far from the pot nozzle you hold the mold ..whether you pour direct into the sprue plate hole or hit the edge of the bevel leading to the sprue plate hole ..use fast slow or medium flow rate ..hold mold level or cant it a certain number of degrees etc etc .. the minies are coming out smooth as glass picture perfect except the variable sized pin hole that cones and goes

So I am trying to cut the testing through someone who knows the tricks of the trade that will eliminate the come and go pin holes

Lead temp 825 degree lazer measured
Lee bottom delivery pot


Bear
 
this issue will only resolve with more practice
and a 3 grain spread isn't too shabby for a 325 grain conical for a newer caster, just melt the lesser rounds and try again
casting is a zen thing, yes there is a science and way of doing things, but you have to master the zen to really get good at it
I agree Cy ..I have cast for years but not 525 grain bullets with a big ole cavity in the bottom of them to trap air ..I was hoping for someone who casts these behemoth to come along and tell me to keep my left foot off the ground when pouring (That's a joke son as Foghorn used to say) I appreciate you encouragement though
To shorten if possible the time to get from 33% class A bullets per session to 80/90% class A's is the mission.

All the places I have bough this bullet from came with battered skirts and air/pin holes in the apex of the hollow base ..I aim to master that situation

Thanks Bear
 
825 is 75 to 100 hotter than any lead I've ever cast with.

Why so hot of a mix?

Straight into the hole works best for all of my molds.
Well a large Iron mold and a large cigar sized plug that comes out to cool as you cut sprue..shake out a 525 grain minie.. close the mold insert and re index the now cooler than everything around it plug in a 45 degree garage ..working as fast as I could ..I had to keep creeping up the temp until I got wrinkle free bullet both outside which happened first and then the skirt in inside of the hollow base got wrinkle free at 825 degrees ..
So tell me your tricks to cast a 525 grain hollow based minie ball with a thin skirt and get it to fill out grease grooves, skir n all and not trap air at the top of the apex of the hollow base??

Bear
 
Don't use the lead to heat your mold.

Pre heat your mold with a hot flame or a hotplate. Once your mold is up to temp, you shouldn't lose more than a handful of bullets when the casting starts.

Add 3% Tin to help with mold fill out at 725 to 750 degrees.
 
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Sorry for the OT question, but what is an "unmentionable shooter"? Someone who doesn't give help, but posts in the thread anyway?

And good topic. I am going to start casting myself.
Someone in another thread basically said I didn't know what I was talking about when I mentioned having the lead and the tin and everything else to start, but I knew many casters use a tiny amount of lead to get better flow on the more complex bullets. It was good to see an actual percentage given and not "a thumb sized piece in a small pot" I was told. Although maybe that does work out to 3%...
 
Well, you don't really need a forum, just a thread, which you have started. I do some bullet/round ball casting, and I know someone who does much more complex work than I do... like hollow-base bullets with clay plugs.

That said, ask the Mighty Moderators to send it upstairs. The worst than can happen is that they'll say "no", and if they do you are no worse off than you are now.
 
OP. One more thing.

Do NOT put your sprue plate cuttings back into your mix to melt them down.

This bad practice will continuously cool down your lead mix. And while you're gathering up scraps, your mold is getting cold. And while you're melting your scraps your mold is getting cold.

Cast all of the bullets you want in one session. No interruptions.

Then toss in your scraps, heat them to pouring temp and cast some more. All while keeping your mold hot of course.
 
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I agree with 64springer as to sprues. I rarely throw my sprues in my pot until I'm through, because it cools the lead. It didn't matter much in rb casting, but definitely in mine ball casting.
I cast many more minies than rb now, so here's my tricks.

First, I've said this before, round ball casting is grade school, modern arm bullet casting is college level, and Minie Ball is PHD level. So you're at the toughest level, IMHO.

I've SLIGHTLY enlarged the sprue hole to fill the mold faster. Also, get a dipper. You'll never get a bottom pour to flow fast enough for minies And you'll get wrinkles. Caveat: My dipper is a shop-made top pour left handed affair. It allows faster pour than a bottom pour dipper.

Pour a fast as you can, period. No smoke breaks, don't check your social media, don't answer the phone. The mold, The plug, and lead needs to be HOTT!!

I HAVE cast with the 580213 OS mold, but I prefer a thicker skirt, but that's just me.

I know some who add tin, I've thought about it, just don't have any handy. Maybe next time.

I have to run my lee production pot WIDE OPEN, to get decent minies with it. I've never owned a lead thermometer.

Get your oldest bath towel and fold it twice. Place it next to your pot. Drop your sprues on one corner and minies the opposite.

Idk what your doing differently at NSSA; I joined their website 13 years ago, I told them I was in Texas. They never was asked to join a company or pay a penny. I don't go there much anymore but I've posted plenty of technical minie ball questions and got some great help there.

You know what? After rereading your original post you're getting almost one half of a percent of variation in weight!! Sir, maybe you should GIVE ME LESSONS!!

That mold is NOT considered a match grade mold, but that's FINE bullets you're getting there.

FWIW, I cast hundreds of minies before I got what I consider good at it. And it would take me maybe 100 RN to get back to speed.
I hope some of this helps.

YMMV

PS: please wear glasses. I came as close to losing my shooting eye as you can by not wearing safety glasses. Also, wear a cap or headband. One drop of sweat in the pot can ruin you say... been there, done that.
 
As to another Category, it's under discussion but I wouldn't bet the ranch on it happening.
Well to know it is getting a fair look is encouraging.. it is fully one half of the equation to successful shooting and deserves a place to share knowledge, to build stickies, to document cause and effect of weak Re-enactor musket caps vs good hot caps.. to discuss and document powder brands and each one of them’s fouling,energy, and other characteristics.. where do we teach heavy skirt heavy powder light skirt light to mid powder.. where is our library that teaches the process to accuracy .. that explains how important or the differences between .015, 017, .019 patches.. where to get the materials.. to wash twice and air dry
Gentlemen if this sport is to flourish one cannot make the mistake to assume once one buys an M/L that we have another fellow shooter .. that shooter must have a chance to have successful results reasonably quickly and the munitions questions that I believe get unanswered are why there are so many “one or two trips guns” available for sale

Bear
 
With respect, everything your suggesting is achieved by trial and error. No inventor of any significance had a manual to refer to.

At no time in mankind's history did we have a solid idea of what we were doing. We winged it. More is learned by winging it and failure then by being spoon fed. By winging it we figured out what didn't work. With practice and determination and hardheadedness we figured out what will work. All of this dedication is not for the faint of heart. These "One or two trip guns" you speak of belonged to people who didn't want to stick with it. To figure it out on their own. They got lazy and hung up their spurs. And it had nothing to do with having or not having information at their fingertips.

Going back to being spoon fed. I'm more than willing to spoon feed a person who is genuinely trying to figure things out for themselves. Everyone gets stuck at some point. Most people who possess a deep well of knowledge get fulfillment out of helping others. To a point. But feeding off of other people's blood, sweat and tears is something the gun community can surely do without. Most of us hate seeing people feeding off of others. While offering nothing in return. When they pop up on internet forums, you can smell them.

Laying out XY and Z regarding casting eliminates the possibility that there may be another way. Something not yet found. People will read the casting parameters and take it as gospel. And when the gospel didn't work, they, too, will hang up their spurs.
 
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With respect, everything your suggesting is achieved by the tried and true tribulations of trial and error.

At no time in mankind's history did we have a solid idea of what we were doing. We winged it. More is learned by winging it and failure then by being spoon fed. By winging it we figured out what didn't work. With practice and determination and hardheadedness we figured out what will work. All of this dedication is not for the faint of heart. These "One or two trip guns" you speak of belonged to people who didn't want to stick with it. To figure it out on their own. They got lazy and hung up their spurs. And it had nothing to do with having or not having information at their fingertips.

Going back to being spoon fed. I'm more than willing to spoon feed a person who is genuinely trying to figure things out for themselves. Everyone gets stuck at some point. Most people who possess a deep well of knowledge get fulfillment out of helping others. To a point. But feeding off of other people's blood, sweat and tears is something the gun community can surely do without. I hate seeing people feeding off of others. While offering nothing in return. When they pop up on internet forums, you can smell them.

Laying out XY and Z regarding casting eliminates the possibility that there may be another way. Something not yet found. People will read the casting parameters and take it as gospel. And when the gospel didn't work, they, too, will hang up their spurs.
Well Mr Springer I’ve met a lot of successful men and women in my days on this old planet .. the for sure one thing they had in common was a willingness to bring along the people around them through sharing their knowledge for when that happens every one wins and I intend to win..
And the great thing about this forum and this post in particular is folks have already stepped up to the plate with ideas that have merit as well as encouragement ..as I expected ..

Have a great day to all

Bear
 
I agree with 64springer as to sprues. I rarely throw my sprues in my pot until I'm through, because it cools the lead. It didn't matter much in rb casting, but definitely in mine ball casting.
I cast many more minies than rb now, so here's my tricks.

First, I've said this before, round ball casting is grade school, modern arm bullet casting is college level, and Minie Ball is PHD level. So you're at the toughest level, IMHO.

I've SLIGHTLY enlarged the sprue hole to fill the mold faster. Also, get a dipper. You'll never get a bottom pour to flow fast enough for minies And you'll get wrinkles. Caveat: My dipper is a shop-made top pour left handed affair. It allows faster pour than a bottom pour dipper.

Pour a fast as you can, period. No smoke breaks, don't check your social media, don't answer the phone. The mold, The plug, and lead needs to be HOTT!!

I HAVE cast with the 580213 OS mold, but I prefer a thicker skirt, but that's just me.

I know some who add tin, I've thought about it, just don't have any handy. Maybe next time.

I have to run my lee production pot WIDE OPEN, to get decent minies with it. I've never owned a lead thermometer.

Get your oldest bath towel and fold it twice. Place it next to your pot. Drop your sprues on one corner and minies the opposite.

Idk what your doing differently at NSSA; I joined their website 13 years ago, I told them I was in Texas. They never was asked to join a company or pay a penny. I don't go there much anymore but I've posted plenty of technical minie ball questions and got some great help there.

You know what? After rereading your original post you're getting almost one half of a percent of variation in weight!! Sir, maybe you should GIVE ME LESSONS!!

That mold is NOT considered a match grade mold, but that's FINE bullets you're getting there.

FWIW, I cast hundreds of minies before I got what I consider good at it. And it would take me maybe 100 RN to get back to speed.
I hope some of this helps.

YMMV

PS: please wear glasses. I came as close to losing my shooting eye as you can by not wearing safety glasses. Also, wear a cap or headband. One drop of sweat in the pot can ruin you say... been there, done that.
Great post and info .. thanks
Bear
 
..we talk all kinds of stuff but we do not have a place to talk about the flints, percussion caps, powder, projectiles, patches, wads ..all of which are the very things that make just so much wood and iron we all dearly love to come alive ..
Haven’t you just described exactly what the ‘Shooting Accessories’ forum is for?

42E5939A-1E5D-4E8B-AB5C-6AF8DC546B08.jpeg


David
 
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