Want to get into Muzzleloading and have a lot of questions so I figured I would post in this forum.

[mooman76]

Will .45 rip squirrel and rabbit apart ? All I can think about it drawing a colt revolver on a squirrel and seeing hair and nothing else. Is a .45 cal muzzleloader less powerful ? Or just scale the load back ?

Headshots.

 

[Robby]

Is that an old Ford Tractor there in your profile picture ? My father collects those he has 2n,8n,9n and jubilee tractors.

Yes, it is a Ford Powermatic 901. Some say its a 9N on roids.
Robby

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Yes, it is a Ford Powermatic 901. Some say its a 9N on roids.
Robby

My father has a version of the 8n that runs on propane the 8nan. I like that description of the tractor too.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Headshots.

I guess that will take a lot of practice the only thing I have some problems with is the front sight on some of the rifles that blade is somewhat hard to see.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

I just got back from Frostburg and they had 3 more smoothbores. There was a smoothbore T/C Renegade which was advertised as .56 caliber, there was a 12 gauge Tulle Fusil with a club butt and an old percussion converted militia musket that looked like hell. The rifles were mostly percussion and modern though no flintlocks to really see besides a Harpers Ferry Rifle made by Euroarms that they wanted $1700 for. Is 20 better than 16 and 12 ? I've found all 3 here locally and definitely think I'm going to go the smoothbore route first and get a rifle second if I can't get them both at the same time.

Well a larger bore is better for volume of shot and that is really about it. The larger bores will consume more powder which is why some recommend the 20g. Also larger bores tend to blow through their shot patterns. 20g is a nice deer and small game gun. The 16g fowler would be great for Turkey. It really depends on what you like though and the different price points.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Well a larger bore is better for volume of shot and that is really about it. The larger bores will consume more powder which is why some recommend the 20g. Also larger bores tend to blow through their shot patterns. 20g is a nice deer and small game gun. The 16g fowler would be great for Turkey. It really depends on what you like though and the different price points.

They are all mostly the same the 20g is $600, the 16g is $675 and the 12g is $735. I am leaning towards the 16 or 12 to be honest I feel like the 12 will be the most useful but 20 does consume less in terms of powder and lead. Maybe I will take another look at the 16g.

 

[CapPopper]

I guess that will take a lot of practice the only thing I have some problems with is the front sight on some of the rifles that blade is somewhat hard to see.

Not really all the farther you can really shoot irons...... Can always use a lighter charge provided poi and accuracy are still there. Which is easier to accomplish with a faster twist like the 1:48. Even my little .32 will chop them in half on a bad shot with the most accurate load so really unless you're using shot headshots are the name of the game.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Just curious: I understand that in Australia guns have been outlawed. I assume that black powder is ok?

no! Absolute misinformation used by both pro and anti gun lobbies in America to suit their agendas. In 1996 there was a massacre where 35 people were killed, the government then banned civilians from owning automatic or semi auto rifles such as AR's unless you have a reason e.g. professional pest shooter.

We do have other laws e.g. guns must be stored in a locked safe when not in use and must be stored unloaded. But we can still own everything else you can in the states pretty much.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

no! Absolute misinformation used by both pro and anti gun lobbies in America to suit their agendas. In 1996 there was a massacre where 35 people were killed, the government then banned civilians from owning automatic or semi auto rifles such as AR's unless you have a reason e.g. professional pest shooter.

We do have other laws e.g. guns must be stored in a locked safe when not in use and must be stored unloaded. But we can still own everything else you can in the states pretty much.

Out of curiosity do your Muzzleloaders also have to be locked away. Here in the states they aren't considered firearms because they don't fire self contained cartridges. We can hang them up on the wall if we want.

 

[cornstalk]

@Murphy_Roberts are you done ricocheting yet? (I get it) BTW, welcome to the forum and congrats on getting into muzzleloading, especially flintlocks.

If I may suggest the first thing you should do is define your mission. By that I mean what do you plan on doing with your muzzleloader 90% of the time? Just plinking for fun? Reenacting? Hunting? If hunting what will you be hunting (be realistic)? You mentioned deer. What about bear? Or moose? What do you hunt now? What distance are your shots? How good a shot are you? Have many shots does it take to drop what you hunt? How far do they run? You are going to get one shot with a muzzleloader (I know I know everyone can reload five times in a minute and hit running targets- I get that). You don't need to answer these questions in public, just be honest with yourself.

If you spine your animals you can get by with a smaller caliber. If you are an average hunter (or below average- you know occasional gut shot, or hitting the wrong end of the animal) you might want to consider a larger caliber- more shock bigger hole more blood. The distance your shots are will likely determine if you want a rifle or a smoothbore.

Define your mission first. Then let your mission determine what you buy, don't let your buy determine the mission. Have fun and bring a full wallet.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Out of curiosity do your Muzzleloaders also have to be locked away. Here in the states they aren't considered firearms because they don't fire self contained cartridges. We can hang them up on the wall if we want.

Every state is different, in mine if the gun is earlier than percussion e.g. flintlock, wheelock etc. And manufactured before 1900 then no it doesn't. Otherwise yes, all my Pedersoli guns have to be locked away. I nearly bought a good second hand Isaac hanes rifle buy it wouldn't fit in my safe!

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

@Murphy_Roberts are you done ricocheting yet? (I get it) BTW, welcome to the forum and congrats on getting into muzzleloading, especially flintlocks.

If I may suggest the first thing you should do is define your mission. By that I mean what do you plan on doing with your muzzleloader 90% of the time? Just plinking for fun? Reenacting? Hunting? If hunting what will you be hunting (be realistic)? You mentioned deer. What about bear? Or moose? What do you hunt now? What distance are your shots? How good a shot are you? Have many shots does it take to drop what you hunt? How far do they run? You are going to get one shot with a muzzleloader (I know I know everyone can reload five times in a minute and hit running targets- I get that). You don't need to answer these questions in public, just be honest with yourself.

If you spine your animals you can get by with a smaller caliber. If you are an average hunter (or below average- you know occasional gut shot, or hitting the wrong end of the animal) you might want to consider a larger caliber- more shock bigger hole more blood. The distance your shots are will likely determine if you want a rifle or a smoothbore.

Define your mission first. Then let your mission determine what you buy, don't let your buy determine the mission. Have fun and bring a full wallet.

I wasn't very straightforward with my original post. I won't hunt any bear, elk or moose as I haven't any reason and elk and moose are no where near me. I will mostly be hunting Deer, Turkey, Small Game and Coyotes. Maybe some waterfowl but not much. I haven't many firearms in general ( only 2 modern ). I have been looking at rifles as they are more accurate and I am still new and have never shot at a deer before with a muzzleloader let alone a flintlock. However as many have suggested and by watching videos on YouTube like Black Powder TV I have learned that a smoothbore will cover all of my bases. I'm certain as long as I practice I will get better at shooting. A lot have mentioned that this won't be my first and I certainly hope it isn't, however I don't have the fullest wallet and would like my first to at least get through 5 years before I buy another. I would like to try and pickup both a smoothbore and a rifle but most flintlocks I have seen are north of $1200. I was talking to some of my crew members and they suggested I go over to Piedmont, WV and talk to some people there who might have some rifles for sale. There is a man in his 80s with a few for sale one I have been looking at is a small .45 cal rifle he only wants $250 for it so I should be able to pick it up. I do have a question to ask though, how small is too small for a .45 cal barrel length. I believe it is only 19 or 21 inches long. I ve seen some traditions percussion guns with 22 and 24 inch barrels so I assume it won't be too short but I figured I would ask. If you don't know the answer to this question that's fine I just figured I'd ask as you seem very knowledgeable like Loyalist Dave.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Every state is different, in mine if the gun is earlier than percussion e.g. flintlock, wheelock etc. And manufactured before 1900 then no it doesn't. Otherwise yes, all my Pedersoli guns have to be locked away. I nearly bought a good second hand Isaac hanes rifle buy it wouldn't fit in my safe!

I've seen a few of this Isaac Hanes and some are the length of a telephone pole. Hopefully I can find something nice.

 

[cornstalk]

@Murphy_Roberts I can think of three things that barrel length will affect:

1. Weight, which can be good or bad depending on your size and strength. I scratch built a .54 flintlock 1 1/8" across the flats (although I did hand swamp it), 42" barrel back in '76. Weighed in at almost 12 pounds but it was a true tack driver in huge part because it was so easy to hold steady due to its heavy weight.

2. In a rifle the longer the barrel the greater chance of stabilizing the round ball (due to the rifling acting on the patched round ball).

3. In all guns the longer the barrel the more complete the powder burn before the round exits the barrel. A short barrel will be shooting unburned powder out the barrel unless the load is really light.

I have zero knowledge when it comes to shooting shot out of a smoothbore so can't speak to barrel length on that other than my unburned powder comment.

 

[TCMonts]

Just like modern guns a 12-gage shotgun is probably the most versatile gun you can own. you can use light loads of smaller shot for birds and smaller squirrels or heavier loads for those in the TALL pines. Heavier loads of medium shot for turkeys, fox, coons, pheasants, fox squirrels, rabbits etc. #4 to #4/0 buck for coyote and deer and a prb for anything else up to T-rex and mastodon.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Just like modern guns a 12-gage shotgun is probably the most versatile gun you can own. you can use light loads of smaller shot for birds and smaller squirrels or heavier loads for those in the TALL pines. Heavier loads of medium shot for turkeys, fox, coons, pheasants, fox squirrels, rabbits etc. #4 to #4/0 buck for coyote and deer and a prb for anything else up to T-rex and mastodon.

Yea I an definitely going to buy that 12 ga Tulle Fusil if it is still there if not I will buy a 16ga fowler form my local shop.

 

[CapPopper]

Yea I an definitely going to buy that 12 ga Tulle Fusil if it is still there if not I will buy a 16ga fowler form my local shop.

Both of those will do anything you want anywhere you want or at least are likely to do it. For versatility 12 and 16 gauge are hard to beat. The only place you would ever be at a disadvantage to a rifle would be out past 70-80 yards. If you are not going to be shooting that far then the smoothbore is perfectly adequate. That's probably the reason they were so common throughout history. When you can only have one a smoothbore is the way to go.

 

[Steve Martin]

Just as several others have already said, get busy buying all the black powder you can right now! 2F and 3F, buy from any stores that may have it, buy from any friends dumb enough to sell you some...you get the idea? Without a decent supply of black powder it isn't going to matter what flintlock you buy because you won't be able to shoot it. Powder is hard to come buy these days and when you are starting out especially, you will want and need to shoot a lot to get used to whatever gun you end up with which means you will go through some powder.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

Just as several others have already said, get busy buying all the black powder you can right now! 2F and 3F, buy from any stores that may have it, buy from any friends dumb enough to sell you some...you get the idea? Without a decent supply of black powder it isn't going to matter what flintlock you buy because you won't be able to shoot it. Powder is hard to come buy these days and when you are starting out especially, you will want and need to shoot a lot to get used to whatever gun you end up with which means you will go through some powder.

I picked up a pound of 3F today and I will pick up 2 more over the next 2 days. In Frostburg the dedicated sporting goods store had 5 lbs of 1.5FG powder I bought all 5. I now have 6 lbs of various powder and I would like to get at least 4 or 5 pounds of 2F. Then I will get some lead shot and some round balls once I get my flintlock. I am going to go with a smoothbore first. Jack of all trades seems like a decent start.

 

[Crowtalks]

You may want to ask your BP buddies if they know of a local source (I consider local with 100 miles) for 4f powder for the pans and ask them where they get their flints. With appx 7000 gr to the pound, and a minscule amount used to prime it, a pound of 4f will last a long time.

Also, you may want to hold off on lead ball purchases until you buy the weapon and mic the barrel...my 50 Pedersoli will not accept .490 balls, I have to .480