Walker question

[trisem1]

Hello, I'm new and hate to ask technical question of the bat but looking for insight.

I just picked up a Walker 1847 reproduction made by Whitneyville. Any ideas on this or information on this particular Walker. I know it is made in Italy and branded and sold by Whitneyville.
So there some issues with it. I was hoping that someone with experience could help.
1. The wedge when placed all the way in revels a high spot in the cylinder, ie it will lockup as turning to high spot. the wedge's metal clip once engaged causes this tightness. I did remove some roughness on the cylinder face. Any ideas?
2. The cylinder bolt seems to have had some issues. I can see someone has taken it apart, screw head damage. Bolt cylinder catch seems at first not to want to sink down but after a good clean and reassemble is seems to sink down when cycling the cylinder. I do see some cylinder wear now though having cocked it several times to check the movement. I did order a new bolt and spring from Taylers.
3. Not sure if this is with all older revolvers, but the lockup is not good. when cocking the gun, the cylinder is positioned correctly and stationary, but the cylinder will move out of battery if touched (to the right)? Almost as though the bolt is not locked into the oval cylinder hole, of cause the bolt should only move when in halfcocked.
Thank you guys for any input.
I will post some pics.

 

[Ed C.]

You may have a short arbor on that gun. If you are using the wedge to set your cylinder endshake you need to figure out the shim thickness required to place under the arbor to give a solid and consistent seating of the barrel. When you get your new bolt fit it to each cylinder notch making sure it is not too wide. On the hammer check the bolt cam pin to make sure it is not worn. The bolt timing will depend on the relationship between the pin and spring end of the bolt arm. And the hand that rotates the cylinder. This all requires a good bit of skill and experience on your part or a good gunsmith to tune.

 

[rhart]

when cocking the gun, the cylinder is positioned correctly and stationary, but the cylinder will move out of battery if touched (to the right)? Almost as though the bolt is not locked into the oval cylinder hole, of cause the bolt should only move when in halfcocked.

Your statement "when cocking the gun, the cylinder is positioned correctly and stationary, but the cylinder will move out of battery if touched (to the right)? Almost as though the bolt is not locked into the oval cylinder hole, of cause the bolt should only move when in halfcocked" -
- sounds similar to the issue I had with my 2nd gen Colt 1851 REL pistol. The problem cleared right up simply by replacing the bolt/trigger spring (seems the existing spring was too weak to hold the bolt up securely into the cylinder cut/notch). If this is the problem with yours, you may save yourself a lot of work/time by replacing the spring only at first to see if it's resolved (if remedied, you'll at least have a spare bolt so nothing lost).

 

[trisem1]

Thank you guys
I’ll keep you updated
I bought this from a seller on GB that said he did not know anything about it? But now it’s my problem lol.
What material should I add to the end of the arbor or should I buy a new one?

 

[rhart]

Thank you guys
I’ll keep you updated
I bought this from a seller on GB that said he did not know anything about it? But now it’s my problem lol.
What material should I add to the end of the arbor or should I buy a new one?

Not to be a wise guy but, are you sure you have the correct wedge for the gun and/or that you're not beating the wedge in too far (which can bind things up)? Just barely tap the wedge in or push it in with your thumb - it doesn't have to be pounded in. You may want to check out Blackie Thomas video on youtube titled "The Wedge" or something similar

 

[Ed C.]

Thank you guys
I’ll keep you updated
I bought this from a seller on GB that said he did not know anything about it? But now it’s my problem lol.
What material should I add to the end of the arbor or should I buy a new one?

Remove the wedge and pull the barrel forward just a bit, swing it to the side of the lugs and then push it in seating the arbor. Swing it back over to the lug face and the distance that the faces overlap will be your starting point for choosing a shim thickness. There are different ways to shim this. What worked for me was to go to the hardware store, find flat (not lock) washers of the approximate arbor diameter (I had to trim them just a bit) and using washers or combinations there of put them under the arbor, assemble the gun, drive the wedge in snug, place the gun at half cock and check the cylinder endshake...the distance between the cylinder and the barrel with the cylinder pushed to the rear. Around .0015 to .003" is good. You will have to sand down the washers to the proper thickness to achieve this....trial and error. You can also use the rounded head of a screw to be your shim, as that will seat nicely in the concave bottom of the arbor hole. When done properly the lug faces and the arbor will seat solidly giving you the proper endshake every time you assemble the gun. You can attach you shim to the arbor once you get it right or as I like to do, leave it loose. Just in case I ever need to change it. I should have added, when you are swinging the barrel to the side in the 1st step, do that with the cylinder removed.

 

[trisem1]

So that video was very useful!! And the sim Method or checking the end shake method also very useful. Funny thing about the wedge, it is serialized to the gun. This gun has a serial number on everything lol

Side note. Posting photos, can I just upload or do I need to link them? Same for videos? I know pics are always welcome and helpful

 

[Ed C.]

So that video was very useful!! And the sim Method or checking the end shake method also very useful. Funny thing about the wedge, it is serialized to the gun. This gun has a serial number on everything lol

Side note. Posting photos, can I just upload or do I need to link them? Same for videos? I know pics are always welcome and helpful

You can just upload them provided they are not too big or have been run through a lot of editing. When the thumbnail appears click on insert photo to make it full size.

 

[rhart]

So that video was very useful!! And the sim Method or checking the end shake method also very useful. Funny thing about the wedge, it is serialized to the gun. This gun has a serial number on everything lol

Side note. Posting photos, can I just upload or do I need to link them? Same for videos? I know pics are always welcome and helpful

So it appears the wedge is the correct one which leaves the possibility that the wedge is being forced in too tight which can close the gap between the forcing cone (FC) and cylinder causing the gun to bind up (this can happen even if the arbor is perfectly fit) or the wedge has gotten deformed (damage to the edges making the wedge too tight too soon) in some way over the years.

I would just tap (I use the plastic handle of a screwdriver) the wedge in a little at a time and test the freeness of the cylinder to turn 360-degrees with each tap until the wedge protrudes out the opposite side a reasonable amount (the wedge just needs to protrude out the other side by ~1/8" to be good) while the cylinder turns freely and the gap is small between FC and cylinder (.005 or less - the tighter the gap the better (i.e. .0015") - as long as things aren't binding up) - that's where you want to stop. If the wedge is too loose or protrudes excessively at that point, you may need to peen the edges of the wedge to make it fit tighter sooner (go very slow and check as you go as you don't want to ruin a serialized part).

 

[Ed C.]

So it appears the wedge is the correct one which leaves the possibility that the wedge is being forced in too tight which can close the gap between the forcing cone (FC) and cylinder causing the gun to bind up (this can happen even if the arbor is perfectly fit) or the wedge has gotten deformed (damage to the edges making the wedge too tight too soon) in some way over the years.

I would just tap (I use the plastic handle of a screwdriver) the wedge in a little at a time and test the freeness of the cylinder to turn 360-degrees with each tap until the wedge protrudes out the opposite side a reasonable amount (the wedge just needs to protrude out the other side by ~1/8" to be good) while the cylinder turns freely and the gap is small between FC and cylinder (.005 or less - the tighter the gap the better (i.e. .0015") - as long as things aren't binding up) - that's where you want to stop. If the wedge is too loose or protrudes excessively at that point, you may need to peen the edges of the wedge to make it fit tighter sooner (go very slow and check as you go as you don't want to ruin a serialized part).

If the arbor is properly seated you will not have to check the endshake every time you reassemble the gun and seat the wedge. Tap in the wedge good and snug and the endshake will be the same every time. It makes life easier in the long run and especially on a gun shooting heavy powder loads like the Walker, give the gun a longer life.

 

[rhart]

If the arbor is properly seated you will not have to check the endshake every time you reassemble the gun and seat the wedge. Tap in the wedge good and snug and the endshake will be the same every time. It makes life easier in the long run and especially on a gun shooting heavy powder loads like the Walker, give the gun a longer life.

I suppose I should have mentioned that the 'tap and check' method I described only has to be done once or maybe twice to determine how much of the wedge should be showing on the other side to achieve a good gap and free turning cylinder - then one can just eyeball it...

 

[rhart]

Hello, I'm new and hate to ask technical question of the bat but looking for insight.

I just picked up a Walker 1847 reproduction made by Whitneyville. Any ideas on this or information on this particular Walker. I know it is made in Italy and branded and sold by Whitneyville.
So there some issues with it. I was hoping that someone with experience could help.
1. The wedge when placed all the way in revels a high spot in the cylinder, ie it will lockup as turning to high spot. the wedge's metal clip once engaged causes this tightness. I did remove some roughness on the cylinder face. Any ideas?
2. The cylinder bolt seems to have had some issues. I can see someone has taken it apart, screw head damage. Bolt cylinder catch seems at first not to want to sink down but after a good clean and reassemble is seems to sink down when cycling the cylinder. I do see some cylinder wear now though having cocked it several times to check the movement. I did order a new bolt and spring from Taylers.
3. Not sure if this is with all older revolvers, but the lockup is not good. when cocking the gun, the cylinder is positioned correctly and stationary, but the cylinder will move out of battery if touched (to the right)? Almost as though the bolt is not locked into the oval cylinder hole, of cause the bolt should only move when in halfcocked.
Thank you guys for any input.
I will post some pics.

When you gonna post pics?

Also, Ed C. talks about 'endshake' but I don't see that in your 3 issues - although you did mention about a video that mentioned 'endshake' - do you have an 'endshake' issue?

 

[Ed C.]

When you gonna post pics?

Also, Ed C. talks about 'endshake' but I don't see that in your 3 issues - although you did mention about a video that mentioned 'endshake' - do you have an 'endshake' issue?

If I interpreted it correctly, endshake was the first issue mentioned. "1. The wedge when placed all the way in revels a high spot in the cylinder, ie it will lockup as turning to high spot. the wedge's metal clip once engaged causes this tightness." Not in naming endshake, but that is what it appeared to me to be...cylinder binding due to zero endshake. I am open to correction if this assumption was incorrect.

 

[rhart]

If I interpreted it correctly, endshake was the first issue mentioned. "1. The wedge when placed all the way in revels a high spot in the cylinder, ie it will lockup as turning to high spot. the wedge's metal clip once engaged causes this tightness." Not in naming endshake, but that is what it appeared to me to be...cylinder binding due to zero endshake. I am open to correction if this assumption was incorrect.

Don't know for sure, but I've heard that 'endshake' is the end result of over wedging a pistol (especially one with a short arbor) - the arbor eventually becomes loose and wobbly and allows the barrel to move around when the gun is assembled. My interpretation of what the OP was saying was that the wedge tightness was closing the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder face causing the cylinder to bind up and not turn freely. Of course this condition is likely more pronounced on a pistol with a short arbor (which Uberti's are notorious for - don't know about the Whitneyville products). I'll try to find the video I saw that explains it better than I can. The two conditions are obviously related, but to me 'endshake' is being able to take an assembled gun and make the end of the barrel wobble (because the arbor is loose) and forcing cone/cylinder gap is caused by the tightness of the wedge (over-wedging) mechanically forcing the barrel to tilt upwards slightly (but enough to close the gap between forcing cone and cylinder).

 

[Ed C.]

Don't know for sure, but I've heard that 'endshake' is the end result of over wedging a pistol (especially one with a short arbor) - the arbor eventually becomes loose and wobbly and allows the barrel to move around when the gun is assembled. My interpretation of what the OP was saying was that the wedge tightness was closing the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder face causing the cylinder to bind up and not turn freely. Of course this condition is likely more pronounced on a pistol with a short arbor (which Uberti's are notorious for - don't know about the Whitneyville products). I'll try to find the video I saw that explains it better than I can. The two conditions are obviously related, but to me 'endshake' is being able to take an assembled gun and make the end of the barrel wobble (because the arbor is loose) and forcing cone/cylinder gap is caused by the tightness of the wedge (over-wedging) mechanically forcing the barrel to tilt upwards slightly (but enough to close the gap between forcing cone and cylinder).

And to me endshake is simply a term used when referring to the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone. It can be zero which the OP described, correct, or excessive. Properly fit the arbor and you eliminate using the wedge to determine the correct endshake. It will be the same every time you assemble the gun. We are dealing in thousands of an inch here. Pretty hard to guess at and be consistent each time you seat the wedge if the arbor is not seated. Sure, you can do that and unless you bind the cylinder the gun will shoot, but if the arbor is not seated, over time with stout loads, the wedge and the slots will get beat up.

 

[rhart]

And to me endshake is simply a term used when referring to the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone. It can be zero which the OP described, correct, or excessive. Properly fit the arbor and you eliminate using the wedge to determine the correct endshake. It will be the same every time you assemble the gun. We are dealing in thousands of an inch here. Pretty hard to guess at and be consistent each time you seat the wedge if the arbor is not seated. Sure, you can do that and unless you bind the cylinder the gun will shoot, but if the arbor is not seated, over time with stout loads, the wedge and the slots will get beat

To each his own.

 

[Dude]

rhart: To each his own.​

Of course trisem1 is talking about a situation involving end shake related to a short arbor. Is there anything else that could cause that?

I suggest you diagram the separate parts and show how they interact. Ed's instructions are THE best way to lock the barrel to the frame, while using the wedge to 'adjust' end shake is a poor second.

Yeah, to each his own. 'Bubble gumming' something together might be ok as a temporary measure, but I'd rather do it right.

 

[rhart]

rhart: To each his own.​

Of course trisem1 is talking about a situation involving end shake related to a short arbor. Is there anything else that could cause that?

I suggest you diagram the separate parts and show how they interact. Ed's instructions are THE best way to lock the barrel to the frame, while using the wedge to 'adjust' end shake is a poor second.

Yeah, to each his own. 'Bubble gumming' something together might be ok as a temporary measure, but I'd rather do it right

You a mind reader Dude? Do you know what I meant (when I said to Ed C.) "To each his own?" No you don't (even if your mind reading abilities tell you that you do). I was merely attempting to permanently end a conversation with an overly argumentative individual who has to have the last word - I didn't expect an even more rude individual to chime in like someone pulled his chain. Did Ed C. pull it (or did the Texas Rangers)?

 

[2 shots]

w.t.h. i read all of this and didnt see one thing about a texas ranger

 

[Ed C.]

You a mind reader Dude? Do you know what I meant (when I said to Ed C.) "To each his own?" No you don't (even if your mind reading abilities tell you that you do). I was merely attempting to permanently end a conversation with an overly argumentative individual who has to have the last word - I didn't expect an even more rude individual to chime in like someone pulled his chain. Did Ed C. pull it (or did the Texas Rangers)?

Rude? Please quote anything that I said to you that was rude. I was merely posting my opinion on how to properly set up an arbor and my interpretation of the term endshake. If you consider any opinion that differs from yours to be rude, that is your problem. And no, I don't solicit help from anyone to support my opinions.