Walker colt, need some help

I am thinking about buying a used Walker replica. From the desciption and pictures, it appears to be in excellent condition except that the bluing is worn off between the locking notches on the cylinder. The wear looks to be pretty even all the way around.

My question is: Does this indicate a timing problem? Is it something I should worry about?

I would appreciate advice from someone who knows more about revolvers than I do.

I have not figured out how to post pictures here, but would be happy to email a couple.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

The drag marks around the cylinder could be from a couple of things. Not knowing what the revolver looks like without photos, I would tend to look at the drag marks as a cosmetic distraction if the piece is in good shape.
Some of my modern revolvers have drag marks on the cylinders. They are very slight, but still there. Those revolvers are cartridge guns, and serious work guns.
A few of my BP revolvers have a couple of nicks and bumps to them also. I think it just shows a bit of character and honest use.

 

[mykeal]

If the area where the blue is worn is like a circumferential scratch it's called a cylinder ring and is the result of poor handling technique rather than a timing problem. Unfortunately, it's quite common; it's unusual to find a bp revolver without some amount of cylinder ring. It happens when the hammer is let down from half cock without first going to full cock. Even people who know better sometimes make the mistake.

It is not a reason to be concerned about the gun's mechanical condition.

 

Thanks to both of you. I went ahead and ordered the Walker. If it is in as good a condition as described, I will be happy with it.

I did not know that lowering the hammer without bringing it to full cock could cause this blemish. I will be more conscious of this in the future.

 

[mykeal]

Many people are not aware of the half cock thing, and even those of us who do still make mistakes.

It works like this: pulling the hammer back to half cock lowers the bolt and allows the cylinder to freely rotate. People will often do this and then rotate the cylinder with their fingers; more often than not this leaves the cylinder in an out-of-battery position, that is, the cylinder stop notches are not lined up with the bolt. If the hammer is then lowered from half cock the bolt is raised and contacts the surface of the cylinder, since it is not being rotated by the hand. The person then attempts to put the cylinder in battery so the hammer fits into a safety notch or down on a nipple and the bolt drags across the cylinder surface causing the scratch.

Moving the hammer to full cock before lowering it allows the hand to rotate the cylinder into battery as designed, and the bolt is raised into a stop notch rather than onto the surface of the cylinder.

 

Thanks to both of you. I went ahead and ordered the Walker. If it is in as good a condition as described, I will be happy with it.

Got the Walker yesterday. It is in really good shape, and appears to be unfired. The cylinder ring is there, but not very prominent. Some very minor external blemishes. The interior was pretty dirty, mainly from old dried oil, I think, not from powder residue. Have it cleaned up and eagerly waiting for a chance to get out to the range.
I would post a picture or two, but never have figured out how to do it.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Welcome to the Walker "society"! Here's my match-winning load: 50 grains of 3Fg Goex, a pre-lubed wonder-wad, and a .454 Hornady ball. Start out aiming at 6.5 inches lower than where you want to hit at 25 yards and see what you get!

Good luck and let us all know how she shoots!

Dave

 

[mykeal]

very good. I'm glad it worked out well for you. The Walker is truly a unique weapon; you'll have lots of fun with it.

 

Thanks. Will try that load, probably among others :grin:

Will let you all know how she shoots, when I can get back to the range. Had a little surgery a few weeks ago, and I'm waiting for the doctor's OK to start shooting again.

Next week, I hope.

 

Many people are not aware of the half cock thing, and even those of us who do still make mistakes.

It works like this: pulling the hammer back to half cock lowers the bolt and allows the cylinder to freely rotate. People will often do this and then rotate the cylinder with their fingers; more often than not this leaves the cylinder in an out-of-battery position, that is, the cylinder stop notches are not lined up with the bolt. If the hammer is then lowered from half cock the bolt is raised and contacts the surface of the cylinder, since it is not being rotated by the hand. The person then attempts to put the cylinder in battery so the hammer fits into a safety notch or down on a nipple and the bolt drags across the cylinder surface causing the scratch.

Moving the hammer to full cock before lowering it allows the hand to rotate the cylinder into battery as designed, and the bolt is raised into a stop notch rather than onto the surface of the cylinder.

Interesting, never heard this put forth before. To be honest I can't recall seeing a revolver that didn't have "cylinder" ring that wasn't brand new. I even have a Ruger with a cylinder ring and it does not have a half-cock. The cylinder rotates free when you open the loading gate.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Never the less, what mykeal says is the Gospel truth for classic single action revolvers. :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

Tired of the "Walker slap"? Cured it in a happy coincidence by duplicating the original service load with correctly sized (including length)conical ball. It changed the recoil impulse and the lever didn't fall any more. It's in the same bullet weight, diameter and FPS ballpark as the 45's that everyone knows does the job.
Conclusion: Back then they were just as smart as we think we are.
PS,
Does not work for dragoons. Go figure.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

You can stop the Walker's lever from dropping with a little careful filing on the lever retainer. My Dragoons have latches and don't drop their levers anyway. :v

 

[Emet Huntsman]

Could you give a bit of detail on what you mean about "careful filing?" I really do want to get rid of the rubber band -- don't think it is terribly PC :rotf:.
:v

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The retainer is the springy thing that hangs down from the barrel. It has a little knob on the end. Using a small, fine file, remove a LITTLE metal from the top of the knob where it engages the lever. Don't nick the vertical part of the retainer as this will create a stress riser and the retainer WILL break. I know this from experience. Go slow. Remove a little metal, fire one shot. Full load. If the lever drops, file just a little more, reload that chamber, fire again. Repeat until lever doesn't drop. Doesn't take much metal removal. On Colt and Uberti Walkers this is a hardened part, so filing is slow anyway, but doable. It's worth the effort.

 

[Otter]

Smokin's load works great for the Walker I had, too. Still kicking myself for letting it go. Very impressive to shoot - you will get a lot of stares at the range, most will be wondering who is shooting the cannon.

If you really want to see something special, shoot your Walker just before it gets dark. What a fire show!!! :thumbsup:

 

[mykeal]

Cylinder rings are very common. I have a few single actions that don't have the marks, and I'm very careful with them, but frankly, it's just a matter of time.

My Single Six also has a cylinder ring (the 'no half cock, cylinder turns with opening the loading gate' thing). Same cause, except that the bolt location is controlled by the gate position. Closing the gate with the cylinder out of battery causes the bolt to raise and contact the cylinder surface; then turning it into battery...

 

[Capt Augustus]

It's been my experience that if the pistol has been handles correctly, a Colt or Remington will not have a cylinder ring. Now I have seen them get one in case of a bad jam and it was a struggle to get the cylinder out. Rugers are something different, Other than the Od Army the new ones are made so that the bolt rides on the cylinder almost all the time, due to a design feature. The Old Army uses a design more like a Colt and will not do the ring, usually.

 

[crockett]

mykeal: thanks on that cylinder ring, I always thought that it was caused by the bolt popping up too soon except the rings I have seen seem to go all around the cylinder rather than just a scratch before the leade- which would be the case if it was only the bolt popping up too early.
Since we apparently have some Walker shooters on this thread let me ask about the "picket" bullet that originally went with the Walker. I have read it was football shaped and I have read it had a flat base and very pointed tip. Was this conical part of a combustible cartridge or did the shooter load from a flask and use a conical or picket bullet loaded over the powder. Is there any Army manual, etc on the loading?
On the picket bullet- what was the weight and what was the powder charge behind it? We have another thread going on maximum powder charge for a Remington Army using a 180 grain bullet and there is some gray area on what would be a maximum powder charge with that bullet.
On this other thread there are some assumptions that may or may not hold. One is that the Remington with its top strap is as strong or stronger than the Walker. Another is that the cylinder walls are equal or better on the Remington. From this we then consider bullet weights and shapes. If the picket bullet was around 180 grains then it would weight the same as the buffalo bullet however if the picket bullet was football shaped or had a short driving band then the buffalo bullet may build up more pressure. What I am assuming is that if the Walker could handle a picket bullet over compacted powder then even a maximum charge in the Remington would be less due to the shorter cylinder, and, if bullet weights are equal then the only issue may be bullet shapes. In any event any advice or comments would be appreciated.

 

[Capt Augustus]

I have a brace of Uberti Walkers and the Rapine mould for the Walker. The bullets cast are flat bottomed but look like the towers of Russian churches on the nose.

I can't say about all brands, but the Uberti is made in such a way that the conicals cannot be loaded in the frams. The opening is offset, so the hole in the cylinder never lines up. I used a dremel to get them open, and fired a few, I think I used 40 grains of 2F. Like the other shooters said, "What was that?"

With round ball I used 40 grains of 2F, that kept the lever from falling. As far as 60 grains of 3f, that gun went back after a couple of cylinders. The slot in the barrel assembly preened and the pistol would no longer fire.

Both of the ones I have had them about 10 years, other than turning them purple, they are in good shape. Vinegar and water do not mix with fired blue.