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FOR SALE Very Fine Contemporary Baker Rifle

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TheTyler7011

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Is there no bayonet bar ..?
I can see a clear distinct piece on the stock that indicates it once had one perhaps ?? Look at this and you tell me what you think
 

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TheTyler7011

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Ime not sure the sight is correct but the Portuguese marking on the lock suggest perhaps made up for the Carlist wars involving Portugal . Normally the Baker had a rounded end by the tool box lid but some went out by Wheeler that had no boxes'. So I suggest you carefully remove the lock & if its original it very likely might bear 'Robert Wheeler's stamp . If so no modern copier s likely to go to that trouble so its as likley original I believe the Carlist wars , more of a civil war situation would be the 1840s or somewhere in there .I haven't researched it but Google might tell you about it . The box interior would have a stem that held a pivoting flat plate to hold the tools small torque bar ball drawer & a cleaning jag of some sort and be grotty with age probably . Any Baker is keenly sought after these days thanks to Celtic films, Sean Bean , & Richard Moore Advisor ( both incidently from Sheffield ) Oh And Rob Dean but he's not from that City !
Regards Rudyard

If it has the crossed mase's bpc & V its the Birmingham proof mark useually strook deeply on L H side If it dosnt mayhap its 'got up' useing an old lock , This said the quailty looks exelant , The stocker knows / Knew his stuff .Ime a stocker I can see that sort of stuff . R
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Canute Rex

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If I wanted to check on whether that patchbox is original, I'd carefully remove one of the screws holding it. They look a little suspect to me.

Machine cut wood screws didn't start being made until 1812, and weren't widespread until after that date. These first machine cut wood screws had flat, blunt tips.

The first machine cut wood screws with pointed tips (gimlet screws) didn't appear until 1848, and weren't common until well after that.

If your patchbox screw is hand filed (irregular, rounded threads) or machine cut (regular, sharp threads) with a blunt tip, then there is a chance that it is contemporary to the gun. If it is a pointed gimlet screw it is post 1848.

Also, the inletting of that patchbox looks a bit fresh compared to the rest. Hard to tell through a photo. I'd love to see what's under that patchbox lid.
 

TheTyler7011

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If I wanted to check on whether that patchbox is original, I'd carefully remove one of the screws holding it. They look a little suspect to me.

Machine cut wood screws didn't start being made until 1812, and weren't widespread until after that date. These first machine cut wood screws had flat, blunt tips.

The first machine cut wood screws with pointed tips (gimlet screws) didn't appear until 1848, and weren't common until well after that.

If your patchbox screw is hand filed (irregular, rounded threads) or machine cut (regular, sharp threads) with a blunt tip, then there is a chance that it is contemporary to the gun. If it is a pointed gimlet screw it is post 1848.

Also, the inletting of that patchbox looks a bit fresh compared to the rest. Hard to tell through a photo. I'd love to see what's under that patchbox lid.
This is all I have until I can take the screws off
 

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That patchwork looks all wrong to be any type of original that I can find.
This rifle is a Portuguese Baker Rifle one of about 21,000 or so. This one was sent to Brazil when it was a Portuguese Colony. You can tell because the Bayonet Bar was shaved off and a piece of wood was added hence that crack at the muzzle that goes back about 3.5". These Baker Rifles have a different Bayonet Bar as opposed to the British ones. The British Rifles have the bar attached to the side of the barrel where the Portuguese have it attached to the stock under the barrel. A lot of these rifles when sent to Brazil lost the Brass Patchbox and were given a Wooden one. These typically come up on auction sites and sell for about $1000 every time. The ones with the bayonet bar still on them sell for $2000 easy and the Brunswick Rifle bayonets fit, IMA has plenty of those laying about.
 
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This rifle is a Portuguese Baker Rifle one of about 21,000 or so. This one was sent to Brazil when it was a Portuguese Colony. You can tell because the Bayonet Bar was shaved off and a piece of wood was added hence that crack at the muzzle that goes back about 3.5". These Baker Rifles have a different Bayonet Bar as opposed to the British ones. The British Rifles have the bar attached to the side of the barrel where the Portuguese have it attached to the stock under the barrel. A lot of these rifles when sent to Brazil lost the Brass Patchbox and were given a Wooden one. These typically come up on auction sites and sell for about $1000 every time. The ones with the bayonet bar still on them sell for $2000 easy and the Brunswick Rifle bayonets fit, IMA has plenty of those laying about.
Dear Murph That makes sense his rifle is right enough just not the high fashion 95 th sort but looks good value at a grand. Was I right about the dates .
Regards Rudyard
 
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Dear Murph That makes sense his rifle is right enough just not the high fashion 95 th sort but looks good value at a grand. Was I right about the dates .
Regards Rudyard
Hard to tell, most of these rifles were supplied from 1810-1821. These served with Portuguese marksman. After that I believe a smaller batch was bought up in the 1830s and once more in 1841 as British Surplus. So I'd say you were on the right track.
 
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My guess it's got up later for the Carlist Wars & box added had one sans box it depended on what sort of troops it suited or what the order Wheeler got.
Cheers Rudyard
 
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