megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
No I did not. That would be a year of dedicated work. You aren't going to knock that one out in an afternoon.
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Velocity testing part one B and part two: Fg comparison, and wad testing
- Thread starter megasupermagnum
- Start date
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No I did not. That would be a year of dedicated work. You aren't going to knock that one out in an afternoon.
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
Well I half heartedly tried to test this somewhat today with no real correlation. I started with 1 card wad, and got horrible patterns, then 2 was decent, 3 was very good, 4 was very good. The load was the same 100/100 load of Goex F and #5 lead. I then started testing bismuth #4 with the same 4 card wads, but varying the powder. With lead, I often saw patterns start to degrade at a certain point. It did not seem to be the case with bismuth today. With a 100/100 load (powder/shot by volume) I set my baseline. I then started going up in shot 100/110, 100/120, and 100/130. I have yet to calculate the pattern %, but eyeballing it, more shot put a few more holes on paper, but all were surprisingly good. I then tried 120/120, which looks as good as anything. I then tried more powder than shot, 120/100, with little change in pattern. I then went all the way to 140/90, and while less shot on paper, I'm betting the pattern % will be pretty close to the rest. I would not feel bad about any of these for ducks.
This was in my 10 gauge SXS, and it seems like it loves #4 bismuth no matter what I do. That's the thing with patterns, you never really know for sure what will work, and what wont. Over the years you get better at it, and know what doesn't work, but people have spent their whole lives studying shotgun patterns, and never found a perfect correlation to any one thing.
Then I tried #B bismuth, and while decent, I did not get anything to pattern in any way I got excited about. It would probably kill a goose at 35 yards, but at the 42 yards I was pattering at, it would be iffy. That's another example of the oddities of patterns. Maybe I haven't found the right combo, maybe it doesn't like B shot. I have a BB size mold to cast some bismuth shot, which I plan to try some day.
Then I tried some buckshot. Generally the large sizes of buckshot pattern very good. This did not seem to be the case here. The largest I had was 0000 (.380"), and this gun does not like that size. This stacked in very tight 3's, which is often not a good combo for whatever strange reason. Stacking in 2's seems to work better, which in this gun's .804" bore would need 00000 buck. I believe I do have a .395" mold. Anyway, the usual 4 card wads with this 0000 buck produced horrible patterns, and an off sounding report. Recovered wads showed they may have been leaking by. I theorize it was because so little of the buckshot surface area is on the wad, it is not supported well. I went all the way to 8 cards, and found improved patterns, and a strong report. Recovered wads still showed a waviness. I then figured something to take up the open space between the shot may help. I went back and cut some 1/8" felt wads. I then loaded 6 card wads, and 2 felt wads. This seemed to really help. Patterns were the best this way. I had been shooting 9 pellets. I then upped it to 12 pellets, which really seemed to help, but I still wouldn't trust it for hunting.
Instead this gun really seemed to like 2 buck, which is .270". It stacks nicely in 7's. I found 100 gr powder, and 28 pellets would be very lethal to a deer at 42 yards.
So forget the year I quoted earlier. I don't think I'll ever know the answer.
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
Well scratch what I said about #4 bismuth earlier. It turns out I had my #6 bismuth out by accident. That explains the incredible looking patterns. While good for close range, I've found #6 bismuth lacking at 40 yards on ducks, so fingers crossed these patterns translate to #4 bismuth.
Anyway, I calculated my patterns and shot counts. I'll start with what my shot measure drops of #6 bismuth. Set to 90, it drops about 475 grains, and set to 120 it drops about 635 grains. Next I found the pellet counts. 475 grains is about 280 pellets, and 635 grains is about 377 pellets. Based on that, I'm estimating my 100 gr measure drops about 528 grains of shot for 311 pellets.
The wads were all the same, four card wads under shot, one over. I did five loads of varying powder and shot. I'll list them in volume, XXX powder/ XXX shot, followed by a shot count in a 30" circle, and pattern percentage. These were fired at 42 yards, measured with a tape measure. These were fired in my 9 gauge SXS, both barrels have improved cylinder choke.
100/100-205-66%
100/120-245-65%
120/120-219-55%
120/100-189-61%
130/90-191-68%
So here we have some peculiar results. It is worth noting these are single patterns. I'm guessing if I shot three or four of each load and averaged them, the results would make more sense. From the hunters perspective, the way I see it, these loads are more or less the same. I really can't explain the 120/120 load. Maybe it was something I did wrong. It could be something as simple as I had some shot bridge in the measure, maybe I didn't seat the wad firmly on the powder, maybe I forgot a couple card wads, maybe it is bad luck. Speaking of which, these were all fired with Goex Olde Eynsford Fg. I could seat four cards down the fouled barrel without any real issue, but I found it much easier to load two at a time. They go down way easier, and I get a better feel when I hit the powder. Oddly the 130/90 load had the best percentage of the day, but it is likely just luck on why that happened.
I look at that, and see that with those wads, just about anything I load is going to shoot around a low to mid 60's% pattern. I guess it comes down to how much shot I want to put out there. If these translate over to #4 shot, these are exactly the patterns I want to see. A 120 gr volume of #4 should be about 227 pellets, which at 65% should put 147 pellets in the circle. That is exactly what I look for for a duck load.
Anyway, I calculated my patterns and shot counts. I'll start with what my shot measure drops of #6 bismuth. Set to 90, it drops about 475 grains, and set to 120 it drops about 635 grains. Next I found the pellet counts. 475 grains is about 280 pellets, and 635 grains is about 377 pellets. Based on that, I'm estimating my 100 gr measure drops about 528 grains of shot for 311 pellets.
The wads were all the same, four card wads under shot, one over. I did five loads of varying powder and shot. I'll list them in volume, XXX powder/ XXX shot, followed by a shot count in a 30" circle, and pattern percentage. These were fired at 42 yards, measured with a tape measure. These were fired in my 9 gauge SXS, both barrels have improved cylinder choke.
100/100-205-66%
100/120-245-65%
120/120-219-55%
120/100-189-61%
130/90-191-68%
So here we have some peculiar results. It is worth noting these are single patterns. I'm guessing if I shot three or four of each load and averaged them, the results would make more sense. From the hunters perspective, the way I see it, these loads are more or less the same. I really can't explain the 120/120 load. Maybe it was something I did wrong. It could be something as simple as I had some shot bridge in the measure, maybe I didn't seat the wad firmly on the powder, maybe I forgot a couple card wads, maybe it is bad luck. Speaking of which, these were all fired with Goex Olde Eynsford Fg. I could seat four cards down the fouled barrel without any real issue, but I found it much easier to load two at a time. They go down way easier, and I get a better feel when I hit the powder. Oddly the 130/90 load had the best percentage of the day, but it is likely just luck on why that happened.
I look at that, and see that with those wads, just about anything I load is going to shoot around a low to mid 60's% pattern. I guess it comes down to how much shot I want to put out there. If these translate over to #4 shot, these are exactly the patterns I want to see. A 120 gr volume of #4 should be about 227 pellets, which at 65% should put 147 pellets in the circle. That is exactly what I look for for a duck load.
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When I was experimenting with my TC New Englander with chokes(12 bore), I used 10ga Wonder Wads (2) as over powder wads and a single over shot card. I had some of the KIK FFg from back around 2000 and ran charges from 85gr to 130gr and equal volumes of shot. The patterns were even at 25 yards regardless of load, but I never ran any across a chronograph.
Why 10ga WW in a 12ga? I ran across the 10ga WWs on closeout, so bought all they had. They loaded easily despite the choke, and fouling wasn't an issue.
SmokepoleSam
45 Cal.
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this, I really appreciate it.
I ordered the chipboard and that’s what I’ve been looking for. It was .057” and it punched out good looking card wads. I had seen it before but assumed it was kind of like partial board and would be crumbling when I tried to cut the wads. Anyway thanks for the info and for posting all your research.
Troyfairweather
40 Cal
A lot of really good info thanks
I see you did some more updates, I'll try to sit down to read then in the coming days. With the longer days, I dont get to sit down until after 9, who wants to be inside on a nice evening. Just wanted to say thanks for your continued testing.
