• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

US SpringField 1857

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
OK. I didn't know they shortened them. Learn something new every day! At first I thought you had a Sapper's Musketoon bayonet, but then I saw that you said it would fit the musket.
:thumbsup:
 
when I got it I thought it was an 1842 bayonet. It took me a while to figure out what it realy is. Some day I will find some one who has a muskatoon who needs the bayonet. I no longer use it since I found a musket one.

Thanks,
Foster From Flint
 
I have photos of the gun now but can not figure out how to attach photos of it. It actually measures 47.5 inches long. It does not appear to be cut down and has the sight about an inch from the end of the barrel.Can you tell me how to post the photo or give me an email address to send photos too. I also have a BP double barrel shotgun with no marks to tell me what it is. It is 45 inches long. Have photos of it also.Thanks
[email protected] is my email
 
It is marked like this as a 1857 but no trap door.It actually measures 47.5 inches long.I don't know how to load the photos on here. Can send photos to your email address or tell me how to do on here. also have a BP double barrel shotgun 45 inches long with no markings have photos of it too. My email is [email protected]
 
The barrel is actually 47.5 inches long with a sight about one inch from the end of the barrel. I have photos but do not know how to load them on here. Additionally I have a BP double barrel shotgun that is 45 inches long but no visible markings have photos of both. Can send you photo to an email outside of here if you wish or tell me how to load on here. My email is [email protected]
 
Ron, thanks for you efforts, we have been looking forward to hearing from you. You can email them to me if you like and I will post them for you when I have time, but I have a busy weekend here at work. Maybe someone else will offer to help too. My email: [email protected]
 
Thanks much am emailing them to you now. I appreciate your posting them. I look forward to your comments and those of others in helping to identify these guns. My assumption is so far from what I have heard from others is that the 1857 date on the gun signifies the date of manufacture not the model number of the rifle. Is that a correct assumption?
Ron
 
Yes. If a US rifle or musket of Springfield pattern it will be marked with the date of manufacture on the lock behind the hammer. Some are also marked on the barrel tang. If this date is different it simply means the barrel was made in that year.
 
Hi Ron, as HR said (and as you surmised) the date on the lock is the date the lock was manufactured and is also considered the firearm's date of manufacture.

I have been checking my email but have not received the email with the pictures. I'll keep checking, looking forward to seeing them.
 
I have received Ron's pictures of his "US Springfield 1857" rifle musket, the subject of this thread and they are attached below. It appears that it is a heavily used M1861 Rifle Musket that has had post-military alterations, the most obvious being that the bolster has had some grinding done to it which removed the clean-out screw. While I have asked Ron to please check the date on the lockplate, he has apparently not been able to do so yet. I do think that the 1857 date is incorrect, likely due to rust and pitting making it difficult to read correctly. Of course the M1861 did not have the door and high hump of the M1855 Rifle or Rifle Musket, as illustrated above by "curator" in the second post on this thread so the date can not be earlier than 1861 and may be as late as 1862 if made by Springfield. Contractors made the M1861 Rifle Musket as late as 1864.

NewImage1.jpg


NewImage2.jpg


NewImage3.jpg


Please enjoy Ron's photos and let him know what your opinions might be, I'm sure he will appreciate your help.
 
Well, it appears to be a '61 lock with a '62 date. I blew up the picture as far as I could and it looks like corrosion and wear has distorted the 6 and 2 to appear like a 57. The picture pixelates (sp?) too much to do any better. The bolster has been altered too much to even tell if it's from either a '61 or '63. Too much metal has been removed for it to even fit the plate cut-out. I couldn't tell if there are any remains of a clean-out screw. But the barrel appears to be from a '55 or '61 and when considering the following, may have been from a rifle. Now the stock I'm sure is from a '55 Rifle. Note the distance between the lower band and the forward band spring mortises. I can't read the entire tape measure, but there is at least 14 inches between the lower band (which is from a '63 Type I) and the original position of the upper band. There is about 11 inches between these two bands on the Rifle-Musket. The nosecap appears to be in the right position and original to the gun. It looks like about an inch of the barrel at the muzzle may have been cut off, but can't be sure. It would help if we get a measurement of the barrel from the tang line to the muzzle. If it was a rifle barrel, the bayonet stud is gone. But I'm leaning that way because the rifle barrel was somewhat thicker than the musket barrel and if this one fits the channel well, it's likely a rifle barrel because this is a rifle stock. 'Bout all I have for now unless we get some close-ups and different perspectives. Interesting piece, just wonder what its story is.

Just looked again at the pic of the muzzle. Doesn't seem to be much at all if any barrel missing. Need a measurement. Sight looks like a replacement though.
 
Good post KR, I think you may have it but if it is a M1855 Rifle with a M1861 lock then there should be a recess visible where the Maynard device was in place on the original lock. With the shadow of the hammer where it is I can't be certain of that.

Ron, more pictures would help solve the puzzle and give you more information.
 
That's what is bugging me. We need to see behind that lock and even then there may be some missing wood from other causes (rot for instance). I've seen several muskets with that problem. But maybe not and that could help us.
 
LOL Whatever it is somebody sure tried to get maximum usefull life out of it.

Curious about the stock ID as M1855 Rifle,didn't they have patchboxes?Another thought is that it might be a "Bannerman" type piece.
 
You're right. I'd forgotten about that. But there is also a faint possiblity that this stock once belonged to a Fayetteville Rifle. A long shot but...? The only other rifles with this type of buttstock besides the Fayetteville that come to mind right now are the M1862 Remington (Zouave) and one type of the Mendenhall, Jones & Gardner Rifle. The Remington also had a patchbox and both it and the MJ&G used an M1841 lock. So where does that leave us? The spacing between the bands is wrong for a R-M stock. I thought we had her pegged, but maybe not. :hmm:

The MJ&G varied in length from 48 1/4" to 49 1/2", the M1855 was 49 3/8" long OA.
 
Really need better and more pictures,especially of the breech and lock area.That lock doesn't look like it fits the mortise very well.Out of curiousity I checked the band spacing on a trapdoor stock,it was 19 inches from bottom to bottom.
 
My thoughts exactly as soon as I saw the 2nd. photo. It could be a 68 or 70 stock, look for the ejector cut on the left side of the barrel channel. That would also explain the 63 style rear barrel band.
 
LOL I've got a 68 but it's waaay back in the pile and haven't dug it out yet to compare.I would hazard a guess it's a post war Bannerman type piece from the appearance of it.
 
Yes we do need more pictures. I think that wood shrinkage and other damage is making the lock look like it doesn't fit. This may have been a '63 converted to the Allin system and re-converted by Bannerman or someone back to ML, but it would use this type of plate. Until the '73 came out with a new design plate they used '63 plates on the '65, '66 and '68. I also just noticed that the boss where the sling swivel was riveted is missing. When I zoom on the picture, it appears that it may be at the back of the trigger bow, but it's not clear enough to be sure. If it's there, somebody has swapped ends, why I don't know. I've seen a couple done this way.
 
Great comments. I sent VA Manufacturing a close up of he lock plate. From what I cam tell it is an 1867, US Springfield does that shed a little more light on it. I was handed down from my Grandfather, who if alive now would be about 132 years old. He resided mainly in Alabama near the GA line and also lived about 50 miles east of Atlanta. I'm not sure I understand all of the terminology on the previous description on parts of the gun but will be glad to get other measurements and close ups if that helps if I know what to measure and take the photos of. Thanks for all of everyone's comments and opinions on this> I think we are getting somewhere.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top