Upcoming Wave of Classics?

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Urban Coyote

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If you've been in the game long enough you likely remember, possibly yearn for, some of the long discontinued classics. I'm talking about those semi-production type muzzleloaders marketed in the 1970s and 1980s. There were small companies like Green River Rifleworks, Ozark Mountain Arms, Green River Forge, Art Ressel's Hawken Shop and such wich produced some woderful stuff. Heck even bigger companies like Navy Arms, Uberti, Parker Hale, Ithaca, Browning imported or produced guns that could be considered "classics". Who ever thought Thompson Center would abandon sidelock muzzleloaders? Now rumored is Lyman getting out of the business.

Coaching a prospective muzzleloading enthusiast I've been feeding him information on the semi-production guns of yesteryear with the thought people either lucky or smart enough to have owned these guns are probably reaching the age when it's time to start passing some of the greats on to friends, family or the market.

At some point the GRRW, Ozark Mountain Arms, Parker Hales as well as some customs I'm fortunate to own will need to go down the road, I'm not giving up yet though.

It would be interesting to know what special muzzleloaders others have out there that may someday be passed on.
 

Gunny5821

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Lyman is not a rumor, I talked to one of their reps two weeks ago, hoping they might have a lefthand GPR or Kit in flint, no such luck. I told him I would take a return no matter what it was returned for, and he took my number. I told him I was a vendor for Midway and Brownells and had heard through the grapevine that Lyman was reportedly doing away with muzzleloading guns, and he said you heard correct.
 
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Sad but true, Companies are going for volume and traditional muzzleloaders are not a high volume item. I believe there will always be a market for custom made high dollar guns but the traditional guns for the common man are fast becoming a thing of the past. Which in unfortunate since few people can get started with top dollar guns, we need afordable guns to get more people interested and build up a demand.Which leaves us with a catch 22, no guns ,no demand, no guns.
 
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There are few cultural phenomenon likely to converge in the near future as the Bicentennial and Jeremiah Johnson/The Mountain men did 50 years ago. That created the boom that made the production and semi-custom/semi-production companies happen.

I would say that at least my generation(Older Millenial) are willing to pay for better/best at the first go rather than get an entry-level product at entry level price. Remember we ain't teeneagers. Many of are raising kids now from infancy all the way to high schoolers. Millennials were the butt of jokes for a while, but we are hitting middle-age on the high end. Just ask my wife who enjoyed her 40th last week.

Of course GRRW and similar are not entry level and weren't when they were created. Jim Kibler, has brought products to market that I suspect will be seen in younger and younger hands for some decades to come. And at a price point that is similar to the resuscitated Marlin Guide Gun. I hope a pile of Lyman GPRs are on the market one day, cause I've always wanted on, despite owning a GRRW.

I also have craved several Sante Fe Hawkens, Hatfields, etc through the years. I probably wouldn't buy them at this point even at good prices because I own their equals or betters now.

All things pass. At one point Lyman didn't sell GPRs. Now they won't again. Remington has gone bankrupt several times, even just before the Civil War saved them. It's a miracle, and a heap of love, and of course marketing, that has kept our hobby alive, growing, contracting, and on and on as long as it has.
 
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Rock Home Isle

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I would be excited if the number of traditional shooters was increasing. I don’t see any evidence that it is…I miss the classics and would love to see them come back
 

hanshi

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I would like to see them come back as well. I would predict that small "semi custom" (whatever that means) businesses will be cropping up from time to time, though many will eventually go away.
 
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There will be a wave of custom and semi custom guns available for low prices before too long as all the people who created the boom get too old and either they or their kids start to sell off their collection.
It's actually how I got all my current rifles. They were modernish built estate guns, which to me is more apropos than any new built gun. People come to my house for a visit and ask when my rifles were built, and I suppress a smile, and say, "Oh, roundabout the year I was born."
 
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Without the resurgence of some form of the many "shoots" we once enjoyed, I fear the train has left the station. In my beginning days, factory-made repos were the exception. Many used the family's old "hog rifles" (handed-down heirlooms) at more-or-less formal contests held at county fairs, parish picnics, and fund-raising events where everyone was welcome. Those old originals were used by folks who many times saw them used by their parents and grandparents. Some were very good shots - men and women.

There were local legends, too. Shooters who nearly always "brought home the bacon". It was FUN, good natured ribbing, sometimes disagreements, etc. Load off your tailgate and shoot off a sturdy picnic table. Then came more and more factory guns, strangers, and new-fangled gadgets. Bib overalls morphed into cargo shorts and Jesus sandals. What once was a pleasant thing to do while the women watched the quilt auction got "serious" - old guys and old guns still won sometimes, but it wasn't the same.

Nearly all the "old guys" from those days are long gone. Ever so often their old guns show up at estate sales, but also on the internet - both at prices few of those old-timers could have imagined. If a "wave" of low-cost high quality muzzleloaders is coming (who's to say it isn't), it will be a surprise to me....happy times, good friends....





[
 
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Just a wild guess; Mr. Kibler hit on a booming niche market and has done an excellent job of expanding to a level none of us imagined when he started out. He started buying most of his parts and evolved to producing them in house and even buying his own sawmill for stock wood if I have the facts correct.

It wouldn't surprise me if somewhere down the road he expanded to producing finished guns in mass as well as other traditional gun makers like TC and Lyman have fallen by the wayside with more to surely follow.
 
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I don't know if this is the right thread to mention this, but I think that there are a lot more BP shooters out there than we know of. I think this because of the numbers of new people that are checking into this BP site all the time. Some are admittedly shooters that have been in the hobby a long time and just found this site and some are complete new guys to our hobby. The gun makers are busy as they can be and all their products aren't going to members of BP sites. I think by nature most of us are loners who have stopped shooting the modern stuff and started the BP hobby to slow down in life a little, I know I did.
 

Rock Home Isle

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There will be a wave of custom and semi custom guns available for low prices before too long as all the people who created the boom get too old and either they or their kids start to sell off their collection.
I’m sorta worried that as us old guys die-off…there’s no newbies to keep it going after we’re gone. I would love to see a traditional BlackPowder Revival like there was back in the 70’s and early 80’s…those were truly Shinin Times for blackpowder.
 
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Lyman is not a rumor, I talked to one of their reps two weeks ago, hoping they might have a lefthand GPR or Kit in flint, no such luck. I told him I would take a return no matter what it was returned for, and he took my number. I told him I was a vendor for Midway and Brownells and had heard through the grapevine that Lyman was reportedly doing away with muzzleloading guns, and he said you heard correct.
Wow! I'm glad I got my LH Lyman GPR perc. .54 several yrs. ago. This is SOME news! Thanks.
 
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Just a wild guess; Mr. Kibler hit on a booming niche market and has done an excellent job of expanding to a level none of us imagined when he started out. He started buying most of his parts and evolved to producing them in house and even buying his own sawmill for stock wood if I have the facts correct.

It wouldn't surprise me if somewhere down the road he expanded to producing finished guns in mass as well as other traditional gun makers like TC and Lyman have fallen by the wayside with more to surely follow.
Mr. Kibler is a genius; uses CNC machines & modern tech to make a product that the actual old-timers would love, if you could go back in a time machine and sell them. I keep sayin', please make a pistol at some point, Mr. K!
 
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I’m sorta worried that as us old guys die-off…there’s no newbies to keep it going after we’re gone. I would love to see a traditional BlackPowder Revival like there was back in the 70’s and early 80’s…those were truly Shinin Times for blackpowder.
Yes; the Civil War centennial, then the Rev War Bi-Centennial; ignited great interest in young men.
 
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I would like to see them come back as well. I would predict that small "semi custom" (whatever that means) businesses will be cropping up from time to time, though many will eventually go away.
Kibler has harnessed the computer CNC tech to make a fine product with less hand work; also easier to assemble for the final buyer.
 
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If you've been in the game long enough you likely remember, possibly yearn for, some of the long discontinued classics. I'm talking about those semi-production type muzzleloaders marketed in the 1970s and 1980s. There were small companies like Green River Rifleworks, Ozark Mountain Arms, Green River Forge, Art Ressel's Hawken Shop and such wich produced some woderful stuff. Heck even bigger companies like Navy Arms, Uberti, Parker Hale, Ithaca, Browning imported or produced guns that could be considered "classics". Who ever thought Thompson Center would abandon sidelock muzzleloaders? Now rumored is Lyman getting out of the business.

Coaching a prospective muzzleloading enthusiast I've been feeding him information on the semi-production guns of yesteryear with the thought people either lucky or smart enough to have owned these guns are probably reaching the age when it's time to start passing some of the greats on to friends, family or the market.

At some point the GRRW, Ozark Mountain Arms, Parker Hales as well as some customs I'm fortunate to own will need to go down the road, I'm not giving up yet though.

It would be interesting to know what special muzzleloaders others have out there that may someday be passed on.
Older collectors of all sorts of military & guns are now liquidating collections; I see it all the time in the auction offerings, etc. Most don't want to leave stuff behind, might as well cash in and use the money for other stuff. It's tough, though.
 
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