Ungrateful identification seekers

Discussion in 'Firearm Identification' started by dave_person, May 13, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. May 13, 2019 #1

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,371
    Likes Received:
    339
    Hi,
    Although I can often help, I've really limited my participation in this section because I am sick and tired of ungrateful posters. Some folks appear to expect those of us with some expertise to do their detective work for them without ever acknowledging the help. I've grown tired of it so I no longer help folks I don't personally know.

    dave
     
    Robert an saa fan and Artificer like this.
  2. May 13, 2019 #2

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    169
    Dave, Jesus Christ healed ten lepers, and only one returned to thank Him. I often wonder how many times I am guilty of selfish ingratitude. I have no excuse; my mother raised me to be a gentleman of manners, although I often fall short of her expectations I'm sure. The best atonement I can perform is to remember to help those around me, and share acts of courtesy, especially to those who are different from me or who I don't particularly like. And also to grant clemency to those 'who make my day'. Thank you, Dave, for sharing your expertise to the rest of us, and know you are esteemed and appreciated, truly. George.
     
  3. May 13, 2019 #3

    bang

    bang

    bang

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    123
    Gratitude in part is knowing others have trust in your ability.
     
    azmntman likes this.
  4. May 13, 2019 #4

    SDSmlf

    SDSmlf

    SDSmlf

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    274
    Location:
    Western North Carolina
    Are you upset you have given ‘free’ expert opinions? Or upset you weren’t repaid with thanks for your giving your opinion? I am not a muzzloader expert. Never will be. I have never directly communicated with you.... Always considered those who have earned or have been bestowed the title of muzzleloading expert a community resource and respected by the community. Unfortunately, at least in my opinion, your responses to individual posters are not to those posters, but to the community. And for the record, I have nothing to specifically thank you for. But I am guessing the community appreciates your participation. To make a point, I have had to tell some of my best employees that whiners whine and they should grow up. Just my opinion.
     
  5. May 13, 2019 #5

    Grumpa

    Grumpa

    Grumpa

    58 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,316
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Pittsburgh PA
    "Gratitude in part is knowing others have trust in your ability." - bang. (I wish I had said that!)
    Dave,
    I appreciate every post you make here. Your comments on others' work always is insightful and educational. Your postings of your own work are occasions of joy, both for the exquisite craftmanship they show, and for the depth of your knowledge of the architecture and history of the particular piece you have made.

    You are gifted with the ability to turn your knowledge of, and love for historic artifacts into reproductions that are fit to stand alongside the originals. Knowing that you, and others like you, are quietly crafting away at your art is a comfort to the likes of me.

    And those other nine lepers were probably so overjoyed at their being healed that they ran off to share the good news with their loved ones, without a thought to thank The One who had healed them. But we all are thankful for you.

    Richard/Grumpa
     
  6. May 13, 2019 #6

    PluggedNickel

    PluggedNickel

    PluggedNickel

    Still playing Cowboy after all these years! MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    London, OHIO
    I try to read every post you make Dave. I learned so much from your help with my Charleville lock. Your excellent post on the BB refurbishment, and modifications was awesome! You not only showed how you did them, but also why they were needed to replicate an original BROWN BESS.
    The posts of your finished projects leave me in awe of such talents!
    You are very much appreciated on the forum. I know you are a busy guy, so anytime you take time out to help someone, I know it is time away from what you really love to do.
    I suspect, some members may not realize that it often takes time and effort (research) to identify original pieces, especially if markings are worn off of corroded to the point you can no longer tell what they were.
    It can involve asking them to post pictures, and then some back and forth.
    I can’t say I blame you for not posting often on this topic though. Just because of the time investment involved, and because your already one of the go to guys for builds, trouble shooting, and all manner of repairs and finishing.
    You can only do so much.
     
    Treestalker likes this.
  7. May 13, 2019 #7

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,371
    Likes Received:
    339
    Hi,
    I am not stopping participation on this site just reducing the time I spend in this section. I particularly dislike those fly-by-nighters who sign up on the forum to ask for information on a particular piece and then just disappear and you never see them again. No feedback and no verification or further discussion if you pose an hypothesis. I personally would like to know if I am right or wrong when I suggest there might be certain marks on the gun or certain features not shown in photos. Too often there is nothing. No response at all. A particular red flag is when these folks ask what the gun is worth.

    dave
     
  8. May 13, 2019 #8

    FishDFly

    FishDFly

    FishDFly

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    214
    "A particular red flag is when these folks ask what the gun is worth."

    Asking that question is rude. It is similar to asking how many acres do you own or how many cows do you have. That is asking how much money do you have. Folks in the country do not poses those questions.

    Your other comments I have to agree with. I find it frustrating that folks come to the Forum to ask a question that they could find the answer to if they just did some research. They want instant gratification and do not want to work at things.

    There are folks who do value your knowledge and skills.

    Take Care.

    Richard
     
    Robert an saa fan and rshveyda like this.
  9. May 13, 2019 #9

    fleener

    fleener

    fleener

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    USA
    Dave

    I fully understand what you are saying. Let me offer up a perspective perhaps from those that asked the questions.

    My wife's family has a pewter mug with a lid on it that is marked 1760 something. Her family came from Germany. I have always been interested about that mug. I tried to research it, but sometimes it is hard to even know where to go to get information.

    I am far from an expert or even an informed person on the history of mugs. So, I found a forum and posted some pictures asking the experts on that forum for information on the mug. They were able to give me an idea on where the mug was made based on the touch marks.

    I was very grateful for that information and I have not been back to that forum since. I did offer my thanks to all those that looked and posted.

    I dont think that I asked what it is worth, but I am curious. But it is not my motivating factor. My in laws are very generous people and someday I would love to have that mug pass down through my family to my boys as part of their heritage. Not something to be sold, but something to be proud of as part of their heritage.

    We do see people pop into forums, ask questions and never come back. They come seeking information from the experts that can help them. They might not have any passion for the item or area of interest, and it might just be motivated by "how much is it worth" and "how much can I sell it for". They might not be trying to figure out how much money they can make, but what is the true value so that they can make sure that whoever is trying to sell it is not cheated.

    My wife runs a trust department at a local bank. Over the years I have helped quite a few of her clients get rid of guns. They dont know anything about them and no idea on their worth. I dont buy them since it would be a conflict of interest, and I choose not to get anything out of it for myself. But what I do help them with is sell them for a fair price.

    Fleener
     
  10. May 13, 2019 #10

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,371
    Likes Received:
    339
    Hi Art and Richard,
    Thanks for your comments and I agree with you Art about motivations of some, perhaps most. For those who wrote that helping without expecting reward is a virtue (Christian or otherwise) I'll mention that so is saying "thank you" for help. We expect so much of ourselves but perhaps if we don't expect a bit more from others, nothing will get better.

    dave
     
  11. May 13, 2019 #11

    fleener

    fleener

    fleener

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    USA
    I dont remember where I read or heard this recently but it goes something like this. "a good man repays favors, a wiseman gives favors"

    I do agree with you 100% regarding manners and being thankful.

    Fleener
     
  12. May 14, 2019 #12

    S.Kenton

    S.Kenton

    S.Kenton

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,428
    Likes Received:
    87
    Location:
    Ohio, the land of the Shawnee
    Dave, I love looking at your masterpieces and hope you keep building and sharing your work on this site. I also fully understand what your feeling right now, a simple THANKS! goes an awful long way..so with that being said, I apprecieate all the guys who put up with my questions and answer accordingly. With out people like you on this forum, we wouldn’t have much of one... now would we?
     
    Treestalker likes this.
  13. May 14, 2019 #13

    dave_person

    dave_person

    dave_person

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,371
    Likes Received:
    339
    Hi Simon,
    I appreciate your comments but my complaint is not general to this forum, it is simply about the "Firearms Indentification" section.

    dave
     
    Robert an saa fan likes this.
  14. May 14, 2019 #14

    Artificer

    Artificer

    Artificer

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    9,196
    Likes Received:
    733
    Dave,

    I completely understand what you are saying.

    Though people looking for information in this section may only be interested in one or a few firearms, and not the general hobby; the least one should expect when taking the time to research and/or writing from experience and then taking the time to type it all out, is a "Thank You" for your efforts. That is an earmark of a polite society; by acknowledging you have done something for them they could not or would not do and did not have to pay someone to do it.

    This is why when I post a question in any section of this forum, I do my best to acknowledge each reply and thank the poster.

    Gus
     
  15. May 14, 2019 #15

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    Florence Alabama
    A lot of us troll this section to glean tidbits of info when the initial posters ask the questions. When the knowledgeable answer a question it benefits not only the poster but possibly hundreds of us trolls who know little but file the answer away in our ever expanding bank of knowledge.
     
  16. May 14, 2019 #16

    TFoley

    TFoley

    TFoley

    62 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    157
    Nailed it for me. My lack of specialised knowledge on older guns can often let me down badly when I try to help somebody out. But coming here will mostly get an answer from somebody who has got one, seen one, handled one and shot it, or knows a man who has. And for that fact, I am endlessly grateful. Like a lot of us, I'm here mostly to learn from my betters.
     
    Robert an saa fan and JTCaldwell like this.
  17. May 14, 2019 #17

    Gene L

    Gene L

    Gene L

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    Georgia
    I call them wham-bam posters, without the "thank you ma'm". Luckily, I have little knowledge from which to draw. I enjoy reading these posts from one-timers, though, I have to say. I enjoy more reading the replies, and think the replier should get at least a thanks.
     
    Artificer likes this.
  18. May 14, 2019 #18

    TFoley

    TFoley

    TFoley

    62 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    157
    I recall a thread on sister site gunboards.com from a few years back where I truly had ALL the answers, since I had direct access to an actual rifle that was identical except for serial number to that of the OP. I spent money on gas, and time I could easily have spent doing something else, and ended up posting about ten pages of text and images taken for this klutz. Even did some research at the Royal Armouries by calling in a couple of favours to get access to unobtainable books and texts and the knowledge that can only be found by paid experts.

    In the end, neither me, not my buddy in TX who shared the thread with me got a single word of thanks from the OP, either during or after the facts were presented, and even after the moderator gave him a subtle hint that it would be 'nice' to say thanks. At that point he disappeared into oblivion. I fully understand where Mr Person is coming from.
     
    Robert an saa fan and Artificer like this.
  19. May 14, 2019 #19

    TexiKan

    TexiKan

    TexiKan

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    5
    I know the feeling because in another hobby I was constantly being asked about items and their worth. It gets old and in some cases I would like to have some of them so it makes negotiating difficult. As mentioned, there are those who only want the information to make a sale. End of reason to discuss.

    Several years ago I was our muzzleloading club's newsletter editor and I encouraged folks to join this forum. Eventually some of them ceased participating because, at that time, the responses to a discussion became heated and rude. When I joined, I weathered the stitch counter controversy. I have been following some of the threads again so far I have not encountered the same attitudes of the past. Good. Keep it a respectful and healthy discussion. It is possible some folks do not want to admit their concept/assessment/cost/etc. is questionable and thus they may not respond with appreciation. If you have been on this forum for any time, one can learn if you are open to alternative opinions. Things can get ugly and hopefully those incidents will not nor be allowed to escalate. Still, it is common courtesy to thank those who seek to help.
     
    rshveyda likes this.
  20. May 14, 2019 #20

    Shot deer

    Shot deer

    Shot deer

    40 Cal MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Northern ohio
    I wonder if I'm guilty..... But just in case, thank you to the people which have helped me thus far.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white