Uberti Quality?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by DevilsLuck, May 6, 2019.

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  1. May 11, 2019 #61

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    We don't really know what every distributor or company does with their defective guns.
    But they don't need to put an assembly number on every part if they don't want to or don't need to.
    Conversely, they can always add a number if they really wanted to.
    It's not like it's an original Colt, it's only a reproduction.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  2. May 11, 2019 #62

    DevilsLuck

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    I’m just curious. Knowing little details like that might help one determine if their gun ever got returned, reworked, and resold. I’m new to BP so I wonder about such things.
     
  3. May 11, 2019 #63

    arcticap

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    Traditions does sell scratch & dented guns, and gun writer's sample guns as "specials" or "factory seconds" at a reduced price with a full warranty.
    The rifles are marked with the letter "S" on or near the serial number.

    I don't know details about any "S" marking on their Pietta revolvers.
    But they do sell revolvers as scratch & dent specials with their full warranty in effect.
    Anyone can call and ask if they have any "specials" available.
    Cabela's used to sell returned revolvers in some of their Bargain Caves under a strict "No return" policy.
    But I'm not sure if they still do that anymore or not.

    I'm not sure what any other distributors or manufacturers do with their defects.
    I've heard that they sell them at discounted prices as new or refurbished but that could be hearsay or speculation.
    If they did I wouldn't be surprised.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  4. May 11, 2019 #64

    SDSmlf

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    Not up on the BP pistol import laws and if the serial number is tracked like with a CF. With no 4473 required to sell once in the states, doubt it legally matters. Would also think that the cost and paperwork to return it to the country of origin is greater than the value of the gun. Either resell as is with or without a repair (Sportsman’s Guide or Cabalas Bargain Cave for example ) or sent it to Captain Crunch. I’m sure the Legal Beagles will weigh in on the topic.
     
  5. May 11, 2019 #65

    DevilsLuck

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    Thats helpful to know. I’ve seen a similar practice in air gunning. Where returns are brought back to factory spec. Then sold at a discount. With higher end specimens receiving an “R” stamp after the serial number. It’s a great way to get a high end gun at a discounted price. Now I know to keep my eye out for similar deals in BP.
     
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  6. May 11, 2019 #66

    TFoley

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    Understooded. All the small parts, like those you've noted, that can actually have numbers stamped on them by the assembling worker, are kept in small containers in the tray that holds the main parts of the gun - all of which is tagged with the serial. On assembly, the whole piece is sent to the proof house in Gardone, proofed, stamped and returned to the factory for final disposal. Any firearms that are damaged beyond repair in the proof process - a HIGHLY unlikely even these days with any new gun - are returned in the form in which they came out of the proof process. I have never seen ANY modern Italian-made gun fail proof.
     
  7. May 11, 2019 #67

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    To be honest, I think that some of the proof house workers actually do their proof testing work at some of the individual factories.
    It probably depends on the country, the company and how many guns they produce.
    The companies probably pay for the testing facility to be located inside the factory and for the workers too through fees.
    That way the tons of bulk expensive guns don't actually need to be transported anywhere and risk being marred, scratched or dented.

    Some of the US military defense contractors do the same thing, except the gov't pays for it as they're the buyers.
    The inspectors can visit once a week or be there full time.
    They inspect a piece of a lot, put the gov't. stamp on it, and submit reports using special computerized security documentation.
    The rest of the inspection can occur after the entire lot or finished product is received and accepted.

    And I think that the US meat processing plants do it the same way with USDA stamps and Kosher food documentation.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  8. May 12, 2019 #68

    SDSmlf

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    Safe to say we will also be learning more and more about how the government and passenger plane manufacturers go about certifying and inspecting what we fly around in.
     
  9. May 12, 2019 #69

    Zonie

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    Lets please keep the reply's confined to muzzleloading and Uberti Quality in this topic.
     
  10. May 12, 2019 #70

    TFoley

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    You are, of course talking here about proofing in the USA, where, as you note, many gunmakers test-fire their products prior to shipping them out. However, the USA does NOT have any kind of national level/federal proof houses where all are working to, and applying, the same standards of proof. SAAMI is not a legally-binding set of obligations, but an organisation set to to recommend standards, not to enforce them, as CIP standards are.

    It is quite different here in Europe, where many countries have proof houses set up in the 16th and 17th centuries by royal command - the UK is like that, as are all the German states prior to the unification of Germany. So too is Austria/Hungary. There are currently fourteen nations of Europe and a couple in the Far East that operate under the rules of proof set out under the CIP. This agreement is legally binding on ALL the firearms, including muzzleloaders of all kinds, and ammunition manufacturers in the signature nations, and legally requires them to provide arms and ammunition that comply with a complex set of regulations under national law. It is not a bunch of manufacturers here, but the governments of each nation who sign up to the CIP regulations and standards. Failing to comply means that your product not only cannot be sold in the CIP nations, but is illegally non-compliant, and can be seized and destroyed by the government

    Although each country that is a member of the CIP is permitted to sell their products within the CIP group without incurring extra-mural proof testing, it does mean that each and every US-made firearm must be proofed here before it can be sold here.

    In the case of a revolver, for instance - each chamber is tested individually, and stamped accordingly. I'm just looking at my Ruger Old Army, and yup, there they are.

    Here in UK, a small-scale gunmaker must submit his finished but not completed gun to proof at his own risk. Failing means he gets the bits back. All ammunition is subjected to bulk testing - all of which adds to the cost to the end-user. Making and selling of ammunition is not an option for small-scale makers, like you have in the USA. An initial single-calibre test figure of 20,000 rounds of completed product that is not recoverable, either financially or in material, means that only large-scale ammunition makers can comply.
     
  11. May 12, 2019 #71

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    I believe that you're absolutely correct that CIP proof testing is supposed to occur at the national proof houses and I erred by presuming otherwise.
    There was a scandal concerning whether or not the Eibar proof house allowed Dikar to apply fraudulaent proof marks on gun barrels from 1995 until 2006.
    But I didn't realize the extent of the illegalities until I looked it up.
    And despite proof testing there's been another voluntary recall of all 2017 Lyman /Investarms guns.
    I apologize for wasting the board's time by stating incorrect assumptions.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  12. May 13, 2019 #72

    Zonie

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    The Lyman recall doesn't include the left hand guns. It also only applies to the guns they sold between March 1st and December 22nd 2017.

    Anyone wanting to find it their Lyman gun is included, write down the guns serial number and follow this link.

    https://www.lymanproducts.com/recall/
     
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  13. May 13, 2019 #73

    PluggedNickel

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    Welcome, kind of late! I'm glad your gun in on the way and going to be replaced or repaired. I have Three Uberti BP revolvers, two 1858 Remington's in stainless steel, and an 1847 Walker, all are .44 caliber. I also have Colt Signature Series 1861 Navy and 1862 Pocket Navy both in .36 caliber. The Colt's were made by Uberti, but assembled in the US. I also have a Pietta 1851 Navy I purchased from Taylor's & Son on sale about 12 years ago. One of the Uberti Remington's has a slight gap between the trigger guard and frame. The other is fine. I could have sent it back to MidwayUSA where I purchased it, but decided to keep it as is. I got the pair on sale as well. The Walker had a small dent, blemish on one side of the grip bottom edge. It is small and I didn't worry about it.
    Your hammer chip is another thing altogether. I would have had to send that back as well, or replace the hammer myself. You can see the blemish on the grip just behind the trigger guard front strap. The spring that holds the ram handle up below the barrel was loose in the dovetail. I replaced it with one from Dixie. The new one fit perfect with a tap in with a plastic hammer. I liked the bluing and CC hardening on the revolver so I kept it. These were minor things I could live with or fix.
    Image 5-13-19 at 2.50 AM.jpg
    IMG_1115 - Version 2.jpg
    Image 3-8-19 at 1.06 AM.jpg
    Pietta 1851 Navy it has just a tad of poor metal to brass fitting on the grip at the bottom of the back strap (once the wood shrinks from age it will be perfect LOL! Got it on sale cheap with spare cylinder included. I too hate the tacky stamping on the barrel of the Pietta
    IMG_0868.jpg
    1861 Navy Colt Signature Series bottom, 1851 Pietta 1851 Navy top. You can see the spare cylinder for the 1851 in the case as well.
    [​IMG]
    IMG_1300.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  14. May 13, 2019 #74

    Zonie

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    Slightly off topic, the Colt Signature Series pistols were machined, assembled and finished by the "Colt Blackpowder Arms Co." in Brooklyn, New York. This company was fully authorized by Colt to use the name. Their QC department used Colt specifications and tolerances for all of the parts.
    Because of this, they are considered to be real Colt pistols even though the raw castings were produced by Uberti in Italy.

    Now, back to the issue of Uberti Quality. :)
     
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  15. May 13, 2019 #75

    PluggedNickel

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    Thanks for the information Zonie! I wonder if the arbors are fit correctly? I should check one of mine I guess. I hate to mess with them though as I didn’t purchase them for shooters.
     
  16. May 13, 2019 #76

    TFoley

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    As were the earlier 'Second Generation' Colt BP firearms. My Walker, serial #1816, among them. It was trying to find a replacement wedge that was similarly serial-numbered that got me to this website, many years back. My dealings with the gentleman then in charge of the factory were less than amicable, to say the least. What I got HERE was all the help one could ever have wanted.
     
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  17. May 14, 2019 #77

    DevilsLuck

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    That is an enviable collection! That boxed set is gorgeous! One day...
    Hopefully, tomorrow my replacement shall arrive. Then I can really start getting involved with a “new” gun. And some serious testing. I’m pretty excited.
     
  18. May 14, 2019 #78

    PluggedNickel

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    Thanks, Bill’s Custom Cases, he has a web site. I have a double box for the Remingtons and the Colt 1862 Pocket Navy as well. Also some unmentionable Colt SAA’s.
     
  19. May 14, 2019 #79

    Gregory Mitchell

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    While I respect their opinions, I wouldn't write off the durability of Uberti because of what some SASS shooters may have experienced. Most Colts, or Smith & Wessons, or any other brand of revolver for that matter, would suffer considerable wear and timing issues under the rapid cocking and firing practices done in SASS or similar types of shooting. Even though the loads used are mild, the rapid hard cocking and snapping would put wear on the cylinder slots of any make of revolver, using about any grade of steel. This is hard usage and not normal usage for a BP percussion revolver. Besides, after taking the time to load up six (or five) chambers, why burn through them so quickly? Savor each shot in the classic one-hand "dueling" stance and strive for marksmanship -- not speed. Enjoyed that way, a Uberti will last a lifetime. I have nearly a dozen Uberti Colt copies, one Uberti Remington copy, and several genuine Colt 2nd and 3rd generation percussion revolvers. With the exception of my Colt U.S. Grant Commemorative 1851 Navy from 1971, I've shot them all. The Colts undoubtedly have a more beautiful finish, the best you can find, but for durability I haven't seen anything to make me believe they are superior to my Uberti replicas. Use and enjoy.
     
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  20. May 14, 2019 #80

    Philip Lebow

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    Gents,
    I have shot Uberti replicas in both BP and cartridge for years, alongside real Colts.
    I have no complaints as for durability. They wear, just like the originals, over time,
    and with use.
    I've been a gunsmith for the last 30 years, and can tell you that the SASS guys beat
    the crap out of their guns. I stock the parts for most of them! They don't care, because
    a gun for them, is a sport tool, like a tennis racquet, or a pair of golf shoes, or a hammer! They chop up good old guns, modify them for speed, and other things.
    When they wear out, fix it if you can, or get another one.
    It is the old IPSC mentality, of win at any cost. Equipment be damned.
    Those of us who love guns don't treat them the same way. Or shoot them to death.
    Yes, I am also a SASS member, so I have seen it first hand. Just shoot Rugers and
    save the old Colts!
    Just an observation from over the years.
    To each is own, no offense intended.
     
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