Uberti .31 1849 Pocket Power

[Stantheman86]

1968 gun control act exempts pre 1898, muzzleloaders and replicas of these from regulation as firearms. They can not be regulated by atf because they are not firearms. Congress would need to write a new law defining them as firearms.

That is good to know, however I still think these Conversion Cylinders are blurring the lines and are someday going to bite us in the a$$

I hope not, but YouTube videos of felons unboxing Pietta 1858's they just got from BudK and installing conversion cylinders "so now you can shoot .45 ACP without paperwork" isn't helping us, at all

 

[Bad Karma]

May have been a target load. My 38 target loads clock around 650fps from a 4".

Well that’s possible. It’s a long time ago. He was pretty calm during the aftermath. A little green around the gills the next day and weeks following. It’s as close as a fellow would like to come.

 

[SOLANCO]

If some miscreant wakes me in the middle of the night there will be no debate about what load to use. It will be .38+P in an unmentionable police special. Or buck in a 12 ga sxs..
Decades back a friend in the Navy stationed on the Georgia coast shot and killed an intruder as he exited the home. The judge said always remember to drag him back indoors.

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

As far as that 68 law, isn't there something in it about them not firing commercially available ammunition?
I also think those conversion cylinders aren't good for the hobby - new laws and new regulations can happen, why provoke them?

 

[45D]

As far as that 68 law, isn't there something in it about them not firing commercially available ammunition?
I also think those conversion cylinders aren't good for the hobby - new laws and new regulations can happen, why provoke them?

So the part about a citizen being able to make their own firearm should be thrown out?! If you can legally own it, you can make your own.
I guess you think Walt Kirst and Ken Howell should just shut down their businesses because of what "might" happen?!!! What part of America is that ?!!! What about knives, baseball bats, cars, ropes, hammers, screw drivers, fire place pokers, anything you can pick up . . . wow!!!!
I'll be talking to Walt tomorrow, maybe I should let him know his business is causing folks to have palpitations?!!

Oh, the not "readily available ammo" concerns the "antique firearms" as well.

Mike

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

Mike - I'm 75 and I actually do have heart palpations, have to take a damn pill once a day for that. It has absolutely nothing whatever to do with gun laws. I don't know who Wart or Ken are - is that important?
I don't like gun laws and don't want any more of them, like probably all of us. I realize we can make our own guns, I've made a few. We are lucky that so far they haven't come down on us about our muzzleloaders like they have on modern guns and I want it to stay that way.

 

[45D]

Jim, those "conversion cylinders " you don't like are made by Walt Kirst (Kirst conversions) and Kenny Howell ( Howell conversions). Those guys have actually "extended" the cap gun audience. There are quite a few folks ( including me) that WOULDN'T aquire a "favorite" revolver or two if they weren't able to shoot smokeless cartridges in them. Some don't like the cleaning aspect of bp and some CAN'T shoot bp where they live . . . so the answer is the conversion cylinder. So we pay twice as much for our favorites as the bp shooter does. Needless to say, we don't like gun laws either. So, we agree on that but apparently some on our team wish we would go away? I would think cap guns are used more often in crimes than those with expensive conversion cylinders in them.

Mike

 

[SOLANCO]

All the ATF has to do is include muzzleloaders under the same umbrella of the law as cartridge firearms and the party is over for freely buying them. Which is why I cringe whenever I see one in a "seized " pic

And I'm sure this will give some people heartburn including a resident "guru" I won't name but these "conversion cylinders" are eventually going to draw the heat on percussion revolvers too......when people are making ATF ruled "non-firearms not using fixed or modern ammunition " into firearms using fixed or modern ammunition, you're just asking for Big Brother to stick his previously indifferent hands into things. But hey, we eat our own sometimes. Wait until gang bangers start shooting people with .45 ACP 1858 Piettas.

It's not "law" it's policy. Congress had nothing to do with Wrist Braces now requiring a $200 tax stamp. The ATF made a ruling. It's as easy as that

We are allowed to freely buy muzzleloaders as long as we are above 18 and in most states, not a felon. Because the ATF allows this.

All the ATF has to do is include muzzleloaders under the same umbrella of the law as cartridge firearms and the party is over for freely buying them. Which is why I cringe whenever I see one in a "seized " pic

And I'm sure this will give some people heartburn including a resident "guru" I won't name but these "conversion cylinders" are eventually going to draw the heat on percussion revolvers too......when people are making ATF ruled "non-firearms not using fixed or modern ammunition " into firearms using fixed or modern ammunition, you're just asking for Big Brother to stick his previously indifferent hands into things. But hey, we eat our own sometimes. Wait until gang bangers start shooting people with .45 ACP 1858 Piettas.

It's not "law" it's policy. Congress had nothing to do with Wrist Braces now requiring a $200 tax stamp. The ATF made a ruling. It's as easy as that

We are allowed to freely buy muzzleloaders as long as we are above 18 and in most states, not a felon. Because the ATF allows this.

As said above: all too often give federal agencies too much rein in their authority to interpret law and to issue rules.

 

[Stantheman86]

As far as that 68 law, isn't there something in it about them not firing commercially available ammunition?
I also think those conversion cylinders aren't good for the hobby - new laws and new regulations can happen, why provoke them?

You're correct, The whole intent of the pre-1898 law was that the guns are old and use obsolete ammunition, not "readily available " and suitable for collecting more than actual use

Muzzleloaders are exempt because they use non-fixed ammunition .

The conversion cylinders have been around for about 20 years now but things are a lot crazier now than they were 20 or even 10 years ago. People want to play around with devices that convert exempt non-firearms to use "commercially available ammunition " that's fine, no one is going to stop doing whatever they want. But it's all well and good, until it isn't .........and it's the next thing in the Gun Grabbers crosshairs.

 

[mkabe]

We have a very warm day here Missouri, so I decided to bust off a few caps. Was curious about "power" (hate that word to describe performance) and penetration on boards of my 1849 Pocket vs. another handgun. I am not mentioning the other handgun, and this thread is about the relative "power" of a particular cap and ball revolver.

My target was a 2x6 Douglas fir, and a 2x12 treated "Yellowood", both of recent vintage. I loaded the 1849 with cast round balls made of pure lead, and dropping from the mold at .330. I used18 grain charges (max and still able to load) of Pyro P, Swiss 3F, and 777 3F. None of the balls propelled by Pyro P or Swiss 3F fully penetrate the boards. A few almost did in the Douglas fir, bulging wood out the back side. The 777 was more powerful, a few balls barely made it thru on both boards, still stuck but visible. For comparison only, the other gun not mentioned zipped right thru both types of lumber with standard HV solids, but hp's failed to penetrate. Got an Era's Gone .31 bullet mold on the way, I expect more "power" and penetration with that projectile.

Not to nitpick as I’m pretty sure you well know you say you’ll not mention the gun but then give us a picture of the revolver and and ammo, thank you. You are also showing .451 balls not .330. Interesting, thanks.

 

[Tenring]

I run a conversion cylinder in my REM 58 truly powerful for sure.

 

[PastorB]

Not to nitpick as I’m pretty sure you well know you say you’ll not mention the gun but then give us a picture of the revolver and and ammo, thank you. You are also showing .451 balls not .330. Interesting, thanks.

That plastic case is full of .330 balls I cast from a single cavity Lee mold. It was full, 25 years ago, with .451 180 gr. bullets. I could use .330 buckshot, but it very hard to load, so I cast from pure lead.

This thread has taken a weird turn. I started it as just a simple penetration test with a Colt 1849 Pocket Model. Since then, it has turned into a conversation about gang-bangers, brass remingtons, the ATF, and conversion cylinders. I have a few conversion cylinders, they are OK, but I have returned to just shooting my cap and ball revolvers as intended. Do what you enjoy while you can, we got more than enough problems that are far more consequenal than conversion cylinders vs. cap and ball.

 

[Bad Karma]

If you have to use an underpowered weapon try for a soft target like a face or testicle. no body wants to get shot in either place.

Tell them your shooting dirty balls and there’s a real risk of infection…

 

[mkabe]

That plastic case is full of .330 balls I cast from a single cavity Lee mold. It was full, 25 years ago, with .451 180 gr. bullets. I could use .330 buckshot, but it very hard to load, so I cast from pure lead.

This thread has taken a weird turn. I started it as just a simple penetration test with a Colt 1849 Pocket Model. Since then, it has turned into a conversation about gang-bangers, brass remingtons, the ATF, and conversion cylinders. I have a few conversion cylinders, they are OK, but I have returned to just shooting my cap and ball revolvers as intended. Do what you enPastor”joy while you can, we got more than enough problems that are far more consequenal than conversion cylinders vs. cap and ball.

Thank you “Pastor”, these comments frequently go off the rails yet I enjoy them all.
My first muzzleloader was a little replica of a Colt .31. Loved the look and feel of the little thing but the balls would simply bounce off the wood target. After the second came back and hit me, no injury, I sold it and got a 44. Still love them though.

 

[Brokenbear]

Pastor .. did you ever get the conical mold as I have been checking in here to see if the penetration was any different or did I miss the post?

 

[PastorB]

Pastor .. did you ever get the conical mold as I have been checking in here to see if the penetration was any different or did I miss the post?

Got the mold, just haven't got around to making any bullets yet. I expect good results, defining good as more penetration. I did recently get the Kerr .44 bullets and have shot them in my .44's, they are easy to load and are hard hitting. In my 8" barrels, I can get 980 fps with 777, and 920 fps with Pyro P, with a weighed 225 gr. bullet. That is firmly in the .45 Colt range. I expect a similar increase in power using conicals in the .31.

 

[Brokenbear]

good for you ..when you run some and if you have time.. cast a couple dozen extra and I'll pay you for them ..I'm almost sure there is not clearance/room in my Colt signature series to get them in the cylinder and I don't want to take the Colt apart to load the cylinder ..I know some guys just take a cutting burr to the area of contact and "open" it up ..not leaning towards modifying a signature series Colt at this time !

Bear

 

[CaptainVane]

Acquaintance shot his .31 pocket model in a friend's basement at a log turned sideways. Ball bounced back & hit him in the forehead. Don't know if it bounced off of wood or perhaps a bullet previously imbedded because the log had been shot into before. He wasn't mortally injured, but had a knot for awhile. Fun little pistols, not my first choice for grizzlies.

 

[Blitz]

Is the wood supposed to simulate anything? 2" of pine equals???

I've read that three 1gal plastic milk jugs filled with water are supposed to equal 9-12" of ballistic gel. I have no proof of this myself, other than it appears a lot of guys believe in this and shoot milk jugs. So it gives me a basis to compare to. I like strapping a few layers of denim and a rack of ribs in front of my jugs. Just to make the bullet work for it, lol.

I've not heard of the bullet vs wood test. Unless you are hiding behind wood.

IN past times the U S Army used wood plank penetration tests . The op mentioned fir a far tougher wood than most pine.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

I used to soak old yellow pages phone books to use for penetration tests. I always thought they were a suitable indicator of a wound channel on a deer.