Uberti 1851 Stuck Barrel

[Versanaut]

Howdy all!

I hope all here had a merry Christmas and are looking forward to the new year!

I was fortunate to receive an Uberti 1851 Navy as a gift this year. This makes my frist BP revolver. Upon inspection, the revolver was saturated in an oil so I proceeded to disassemble for a thorough cleaning. AFTER verifying not loaded and all... Step one is to remove the wedge and pull the barrel off the arbor.. The wedge removed easily enough.. but MAN the barrel was on there tight! To tight to remove by hand. I had to tap on the cylinder with a wood mallet to separate the too.

After a cleaning and a little slicking up (hit hammer slot burs with some 320 sandpaper) I tried to reassemble. The barrel just did not want to go on. It's smooth all the way until the last 1/4-3/16 inches. It just gets super tight. I can tap it on with the mallet but have to tap it off.

I decided to polish the barrel receiver slot/hole with my dremel using polishing compound. After 15 minutes of polishing it.. I'm now a solid 3/16ths before it still sticks. I dried up all the lube and twisted the arbor back and forth where it stuck to try to see a 'wear' mark, but none occurred, Almost as if the receiving side has a slight taper?

Thoughts?

Many thanks,

B

 

[ppg1949]

B, I've had barrels become tight after an afternoon of shooting but never out of the box. Here is what I would do as a suggestion. Take it back to where it was bought. Some stores will not trade you even but may insist on sending it back to Uberti. If they keep your gun without an exchange, be sure to get a receipt with the serial number on it. If the store where you got it will not accept a return, then you would need to contact Uberti about a direct return. If Uberti refuses to deal with you, then you may have to take it to a good gunsmith for the answer. But it has to be out of specs. Like I said I've barrels hard to remove after hours of shooting. Then I would turn the cylinder to the solid part of the cylinder between the chambers and use the ramrod to push the barrel off. But your problem is very serious. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[ASMman]

Hello versanaut,

The problem is the typical Uberti short arbor. The arbor needs to be lengthened.
The barrel assembly should bottom out on the arbor. Lots of stuff about how to fix, personally I feel to lengthen it is the correct way but others do other things.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[Erwan]

The AntiqueSledMan's answer is good and right. Mos of the Uberti at the opposit than the Pietta (Pietta have other problems), have mostly the axle too short and are not arbor bottomed. All the original Colt where arbor bottomed...
Now that you have touched ans a bit worked on this revolver it's possible that the retailor won't take it back.
Anyway, you can with some sanding belt adapt the conicity of the arbor til like it can enter in the barrel block..
Then after that and after mesuring the space between the cylinder ant the barrel and put a screw at his extremity. After that grind the screw with a file till the arbor and the barrel are OK wen turning them by the side...
That's what I did on my Uberti and it works pretty good now...

Wait other answers about that, but on the picture is what I did:

Spoiler

 

[Steve Blancard]

The Uberti short arbor is a common problem. A while back I fixed my 1849 pocket pistol short arbor. I discussed the process with photos here.

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55544.0.html

 

[Versanaut]

Thanks all,

I've read a lot about the short arbor problem, but perhaps I am misunderstanding it? I get the impression that a short arbor allows the cylinder/barrel gap to vary (as it is not seated) and causes the cylinder to bind against the forcing cone and not index properly. While it's extremely difficult to remove the barrel from the arbor for me (the loading lever trick is a great idea.. though I worry about deforming the seating plunger edges), a better description is that I can't get the barrel all the way back on without a mallet to seat it. I cannot even get the two pins at the bottom of the frame to engage. And not enough to get the wedge back thru without using a mallet to seat the barrel onto the arbor arm and seat the base of the barrel against the frame. It's almost as if the arbor hole in the barrel is tapered. Goes in smoothly 95% of the way then get REALLY tight the last 1/4 inch.

Does anyone have the dimension the arbor length from the frame face should be? I always say during arguments at work, "Why bother being precise when ya don't even know what you are talking about!" haha.. That'll help to rule in or out arbor length. I'll post some pics tonight.

Again, thanks for the help!

Versanaut

 

[viking]

Hello Versanaut I have read that uberti has been addressing the short arbor problem and I bought a dragoon dated in 2019 and the arbor is the right length. It seems to me the arbor hole in your barrel is not machined correctly and should be returned to them by you or your dealer. God luck to you,Viking

 

[Erwan]

The key is not used to adjust the play between the cylinder and the barrel, the barrel must always be in abutment on the bottom of its bore and the key is in fact only used to hold the assembly firmly .
The differences in depth are variable and the shim to be added on the axle must correspond to a single weapon, a single shim for a single weapon...
In this sense the link given by Steve Blancard is very interesting as well as the explanations that go with it...
For your strength problems, I think that with a bit of grinding belt you will be able to overcome them, just a burr or a not very good surface state is sometime enough to block an assembly of this kind ...

 

[FishDFly]

Before frinkling with it would be gone back for a replacement that functions as it should. I do not spend money for stuff that does not function.

Had you sent it to Cherry's, the gunsmith it would have repaired it for free.

 

[bang]

My Uberti Dragoon was same. I polished the bluing off of the arbor end. Then colored it with a black marker. Put the barrel on till resistance was felt. Then turned it back to and fro. Then using a very fine file gently gave the binding areas a few licks then repeat. Took some time but once the barrel would install to the point the guide pin mating surface just touches stop. Then remove and reinstall barrel with it turned to miss the guide pins and their mating surface. Check that the two surfaces do not overlap. May even need to give a light tap to insure barrel is sure to be as far as arbor allows. Don't tap it hard as you might have to tap it to remove. If the mating surfaces overlap the arbor length will need to be dealt with. Luckily on the Dragoon it was on spot. My Walker however had no issues with assembly but the arbor length needed adjusting. I used several washers of various thickness. Drop which ever you think is needed in arbor receiver and install barrel. If mating surfaces touch add thinner till they just do not touch then back off thickness till they do. May have to lap a washer to achive exact thickness needed or make a spacer to nearest then lap the spacer to exact thickness. that point you can either measure total thickness of washers and add, in some way, that to the end of the arbor or secure the washers inside the arbor receiver. Some drill and tap end of arbor. Install a screw then trim the screw head to thickness needed or add under screw head which ever is required. I wasn't keen on modifying the arbor so I used a combination of a thick, .045, washer and a thin, .010 and lapped the .045 to fit. Then cleaned the bottom of the arbor receiver and washers then installed with glue. Greased the arbor and assembled till set. Disassembled, cleaned, reblue, light oil and reassembled. Done deal

 

[Bad Karma]

Thanks all,

I've read a lot about the short arbor problem, but perhaps I am misunderstanding it? I get the impression that a short arbor allows the cylinder/barrel gap to vary (as it is not seated) and causes the cylinder to bind against the forcing cone and not index properly. While it's extremely difficult to remove the barrel from the arbor for me (the loading lever trick is a great idea.. though I worry about deforming the seating plunger edges), a better description is that I can't get the barrel all the way back on without a mallet to seat it. I cannot even get the two pins at the bottom of the frame to engage. And not enough to get the wedge back thru without using a mallet to seat the barrel onto the arbor arm and seat the base of the barrel against the frame. It's almost as if the arbor hole in the barrel is tapered. Goes in smoothly 95% of the way then get REALLY tight the last 1/4 inch.

Does anyone have the dimension the arbor length from the frame face should be? I always say during arguments at work, "Why bother being precise when ya don't even know what you are talking about!" haha.. That'll help to rule in or out arbor length. I'll post some pics tonight.

Again, thanks for the help!

Versanaut

None of that is right and you’re correct, it has nothing to do with the length of the arbor. I would take it back. If they won’t exchange it, you can take a strip of emery cloth and using a shoe shine motion, work on the arbor until it enters the barrel easily. It should not take much. After that you can just enjoy the pistol. Best of luck.

 

[hawkeye2]

Well a tight barrel/arbor fit is far better than a loose one. I wouldn't bother taking it back as you run the chance of getting another with issues and possibly worse ones. I own a little more than 25 Italian revolvers mostly bought new but also used ones and several different brands and the only one I ever got that didn't need work of some kind was a Euroarms Rogers & Spencer.

While all the advise regarding the arbor length is true it has nothing to do with your problem and doesn't need to be addressed till you have resolved your issue. Bang made some very good points and I believe he has the solution as does Woodenbow. I would like to add a couple of things to that that may help. First I have found that the edges of the wedge slot may have almost imperceptible burrs and taking a stone to them has helped. Just stone the edges vertically with the gun held normally to dull the slot edges a little. Next I would take a micrometer and check the diameter of the arbor for it's entire length taking two readings at each spot at right angles to each other to check for variations in diameter as well as out of round. If you eliminate the arbor as an issue and decide the problem is a slight taper in the barrel hole it is probably easier to put a slight taper on the end of the arbor with emery cloth checking the fit as you progress. BTW I'm guessing that your problem begins before the locating pins are close to entering the barrel. A slight mislocation of the pins or the holes that receive them can be another problem that I have seen. I have a couple of Piettas that fit snug till the pins are almost ready to enter the holes and then stop. A couple of smacks with a rawhide mallet takes care of that and I don't think I'll bother to do anything to them. It sounds like you are already off to a good start and have the ability to fix it yourself.

 

[Gee Dog]

Welcome to the world of black powder Italian revolvers. Don’t worry, it gets better.

I had that same problem with a Pietta 1860 once. Follow the advice above about smoothing the front section of the arbor with some various grades of paper. Make it real smooth. Wrap some paper around a dowel that fits the arbor hole on the barrel assembly and smooth that interior space up good too. Put on a little non-petro grease to the front portion of the arbor where it makes entry and a drop on the pins and then give it a try. You may have to use a resin hammer or mallet to tap the barrel on. Be gentle with that. After a few takedowns and reassemblies it will get easier. My formerly troublesome Pietta Colt goes back together just fine now.

A word on taking the barrel off -- I lay a flat piece of wood like a Popsicle stick over the cylinder face for contact with the plunger. Even if you have to use some pressure nothing gets marred.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Versanaut]

Thank you all for your help!

Sure, I normally send something back that won't work right outta the box. But I have found with my rifles, it is usually not worth the hassle IF.. big IF.. it's an easy fix.

I did use a fine finishing compound on a dremel polishing felt in the arbor hole not wanting to affect too much without talking to you all first. I also hit the arbor itself with some 400 grit around the wedge cutout as it was quite sharp. I wasn't aggressive with either to avoid screwing something up and this of course didn't help the fit much. I will go ahead and do some measuring first, then Dykem the arbor and work the high spots in a little at a time.

I agree.. slightly snug with a light tap to set is better than too loose.

On a positive note, I took it for a spin today and it shot quite well! A little high, but manageable. The stock nipples didn't do too bad. A few caps split and jammed the cylinder drawing the hammer back. A rake wouldn't have helped these. Will get some slicks or tresco nipples soon enough. For now... Practice and Patience are the actions of the day!

Thanks again for your help. I'll report back here if I get an AHA! moment or when the fit is addressed.

And yes Dog... haha.. I put a popsicle stick in the ol' box before I headed to the range today... JUST in case! haha Thanks!!

Versanaut

 

[denster]

What you are having a problem with is Uberti's jury rig rix for a short arbor. Basically the arbor increases in diameter a small amount and the barrel has to be forced on or off for that matter. That is why you had trouble taking the barrel off. This was a terrible fix as in short order the arbor hole in the barrel gets wallowed out and then it goes together and comes apart easy but you are left with the short arbor problem. The solution is to mark the arbor just where it tightens up and polish the area just behind it until the barrel will slide on easy. Then you need to correct the short arbor. Plenty of articles on how to do that just do a search.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

With the hammer on half cock, lower the rammer between chambers and press the barrel off the arbor. Works like a charm on my 1860.

 

[Versanaut]

Update here,

Nothing extraordinary found, but during the first post firing cleaning, I still could not separate the barrel and arbor by hand and tried the rammer trick Tom and Gee mentioned with a popsicle stick to protect the rammer. Worked with a LOT less force than I anticipated! Thanks for the advice!

Putting it all together, it was about 1/16th better, but still not solved. Again, Patience and time may solve it.

What you are having a problem with is Uberti's jury rig rix for a short arbor...

You have my attention! I've read a number of pieces regarding the short arbor fix, but none on what Uberti did to address? I'm curious what I might be getting into? How is their fix different than the advice online to address ourselves?

Thanks again!

 

[denster]

Update here,

Nothing extraordinary found, but during the first post firing cleaning, I still could not separate the barrel and arbor by hand and tried the rammer trick Tom and Gee mentioned with a popsicle stick to protect the rammer. Worked with a LOT less force than I anticipated! Thanks for the advice!

Putting it all together, it was about 1/16th better, but still not solved. Again, Patience and time may solve it.



You have my attention! I've read a number of pieces regarding the short arbor fix, but none on what Uberti did to address? I'm curious what I might be getting into? How is their fix different than the advice online to address ourselves?

Thanks again!

They have been doing this for some time and it is not really a fix. What they do is increase the diameter of the arbor so it is slightly larger than the diameter of the arbor hole in the barrel at the point where when assembling the revolver the barrel is almost seated to the frame. The arbor hole in the barrel then has to be forced over this slightly larger diameter. The problem with this ,besides hard assembly and takedown is that it doesn't last for long before the arbor hole is wallowed out and the larger diameter no longer has an effect. The proper fix of course would be to lengthen the arbor so that at the moment the barrel assembly contacted the frame the arbor bottomed out in its hole in that assembly.

 

[sawyer04]

I had a similar problem with a Uberti 1858 army stainless steel, era 1977. It is designated on the barrel as Uberti and Gardone. The cylinder axle bound as it entered the receiver already passing through the cylinder. The receiving hole was machined square. I chamfered the hole just enough to get the square edge off and it solved the problem. All replicas will shoot out of the box, but I would say almost all require some fine tuning. I have been told by pass down of word It was the same when they were the tools of the day. A pistol would be purchased and the gunsmith would go through it and tune it from the inside out, sometimes including sights.

 

[Zonie]

Update here,

Nothing extraordinary found, but during the first post firing cleaning, I still could not separate the barrel and arbor by hand and tried the rammer trick Tom and Gee mentioned with a popsicle stick to protect the rammer. Worked with a LOT less force than I anticipated! Thanks for the advice!
...

Using the loading lever and its ram to jack the barrel off of the frame is the method described by Colt in their original owners manual.
Of course, Col. Colt didn't recommend using Popsicle sticks in the instructions.