Trying to make a decision

[PotomacRanger]

Hey all I posted on the forum about a week ago about trying to find a nice rifle in .50 caliber and I want a flintlock. That being said a local shop has a Thompson Center Pennsylvania Hunter Flintlock .50 caliber. The Pennsylvania hunter is $475 which is in my budget but the shop owner said that the Thompson Center Flintlocks need work to be good as he says they are unreliable. He also has a Dixie Tennesee Rifle and showed me how bad it sparks. (He wasnt plannin on sellin it so he got it dirty to show me what he meant). He told me to save some more and buy a contemporary rifle and it will suit my needs. I really dont want to buy multiple rifles as I dont see the need to have rifles lying around collecting dust. That being said should I go for this Pennsylvania Hunter (It is in good condition by the way) or should I save up some more for a contemporary built rifle of higher quality ?

 

[BruceHH]

The PA Hunter rifle is a very good rifle. The single trigger may be a bit rough and strong, but the barrels give good accuracy. To my knowledge there were three variations of that rifle. One has an octagon to round barrel with a twist of 1-66. One was a straight octagon with I believe the same twist. One was a carbine length - like 26" or so I think - others with more knowledge will chime in shortly. There was one other variation that some do not like and I am in that crowd. For some reason TC decided with the later PA Hunters to put the Quick Load (QLA) feature in the barrel. They removed the rifling down from the muzzle end for an inch or so to supposedly make it easier to load. I do not like that feature. Depending on the condition, that is a fair price for one w/o the QLA feature. Use real knapped flints - not the machine made ones.

 

[BoomStick]

Sounds like a budget friendly way to start. The TC guns are generally all of good quality, and the PA hunter is a good choice for shooting round ball. A buddy of mine had one and it was a good shooter, reliable and no frills. Trigger may be a bit heavy, but that alone would not stop me from buying one.

 

[NorthFork]

Nothing wrong with a T/C PA hunter as long as the bore is good. Check the bore. If it's rust/pits/dark free then it's not a bad deal. I've got T/C, Lyman, and Traditons/CVA, Pedersoli flintlocks and caplocks and they all go bang nicely.

 

[mmb617]

There are some people who think that if you don't spend megabucks then whatever you buy is junk. Since I don't have megabucks I've bought 5 different Traditions flintlocks and haven't been disappointed in any of them. Some have needed a little putzing with in order to figure out what they like at first but they all work good now.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hey all I posted on the forum about a week ago about trying to find a nice rifle in .50 caliber and I want a flintlock. That being said a local shop has a Thompson Center Pennsylvania Hunter Flintlock .50 caliber. The Pennsylvania hunter is $475 which is in my budget but the shop owner said that the Thompson Center Flintlocks need work to be good as he says they are unreliable. He also has a Dixie Tennesee Rifle and showed me how bad it sparks. (He wasnt plannin on sellin it so he got it dirty to show me what he meant). He told me to save some more and buy a contemporary rifle and it will suit my needs. I really dont want to buy multiple rifles as I dont see the need to have rifles lying around collecting dust. That being said should I go for this Pennsylvania Hunter (It is in good condition by the way) or should I save up some more for a contemporary built rifle of higher quality ?

Well, your local gun shop owner is fundamentally correct in that the Pennsylvania Hunter Flintlock will need some work to be good. But I haven't picked up a new flintlock that didn't need some lock tuning and smoothing of parts to improve the performance of the lock. I believe that by the time T/C was producing the Pennsylvania Hunter, they were installing the improved flint lock with the better geometry and frizzen. Look over the barrel's bore. If it has that QLA feature that is hardly quick nor does it make the barrel more accurate, then $475 is way too high and the LGS owner is more than correct as work will certainly need to be done to make that rifle good.

Take a look at the pictures of the old and improved T/C locks in the attached thread. You could find that rifle has the improved lock. In any case, the QLA feature is more of a deal breaker to me.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/early-tc-locks-bad-i-was-told-this.122021/#post-1672909

 

[Sidney Smith]

Sounds to me like this gun shop owner has an axe to grind against the TC gun. Worse comes to worse, its got a shitty lock. That can be tuned or replaced. For the money, I'd buy it. I'd rather have a TC firearm than a Traditions any day.

The poor sparking could be as simple as an improperly hardened frizzen, or even more simply, a dull flint. You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen come to our range, only to attempt using a flint that should've been tossed in the trash long ago, but whom still think it will spark.

Had one guy near me one time who couldn't get his gun to fire to save his arse. I asked if I could be of help and if I could look the gun over. About two seconds into my examination, and I found the problem. His flint was so worn, as to be nearly rounded over. Cat had no clue that flints need to be sharp to work properly. He had no spares so I gave him one of my brand new English flints. Showed him how to properly mount the flint, then let him go. He probably had 20 consecutive shots after that without a misfire. Maybe more, but I had left before he did. I could only hope he took my advice to heart and monitored his flint life after that.

 

[deerstalkert]

if the shop owner is bad mouthing the gun, beat him up on the price! offer 375 to take that junker off his hands. then smile all the way home!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

If he says its so crappy, hand him $350

 

[PotomacRanger]

Update on this post I haggled him around to $350 and he said he'd have to take a day or two to think it over. He tried to sell me a Sam River flintlock Hawken rifle in .62 caliber but it was awkward and heavy (12lb rifle) and i have 200 .490 round balls and a mix or .010"/.015" patches so I want a .50. I already got some 2F powder so now all I need is a rifle. Will update if my hagglin was successful.

 

[Ballshooter]

If I were you.. save up and get a Kibler if you want a flintlock it's worth the money and in the long run you will have a flintlock that you will be proud of and will not have a problem. Buy a cheap flintlock is not the thing to do you will be frustrated.

Trust me on this!

 

[The Appalachian]

Wants to be a flintlock shooter.......

Ok, then concede to yourself you'll have to learn how to do all the tinkering to make it work right and shoot reliably. Either that or find a really good friend who knows all about it and put him on speed dial. I've never been partial to the latter and always jumped on the former and learned everything I could to do my own tinkering. Now I build the dang things from a pile of raw parts, some I make myself.

And I don't care how good a quality of flintlock you get, there still is a measure of fiddlin' that every flintlock shooter needs to master. Yep, the crappy ones need more than the good ones, but when you make a crappy one work right a good one is child's play.

I've never had bad luck with anything T/C....two cartridge pistols, at least one inline, and more side locks than I can even try to remember. Never had a PA flint hunter though, but I'd bet heavy odds I could make a deer killin' monster out of one.

If you jump on that PA hunter there's plenty of folks here more than willing to advise you what to do with it if it doesn't suit you. All ya gotta do is ask the right questions to get the right answers. I myself wouldn't be afraid of it.

 

[Gamechaser]

I own three t/c s and wouldn't let any one of them out of my sight.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

It is not always about the money. I think any Flinter needs work, some just more than others. I have read on this forum where many people are using T/C's, CVA's, Traditions and GPRs and they seem to work fine. I have a few handmade custom flint rifles by very reputable well known builders. they shoot fine. I have an Investarms GPR (capper) that I built from a kit, that I love, It shoots every bit as well as my others. I just ordered another Investarms GPR in Flint. I am looking forward to building it and getting it tuned properly. There is enough knowledge on this forum to do anything that is needed. IMHO

 

[Gamechaser]

Hey, if it throws a prb down range and hits the intended target, its worth it

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Hey all I posted on the forum about a week ago about trying to find a nice rifle in .50 caliber and I want a flintlock. That being said a local shop has a Thompson Center Pennsylvania Hunter Flintlock .50 caliber. The Pennsylvania hunter is $475 which is in my budget but the shop owner said that the Thompson Center Flintlocks need work to be good as he says they are unreliable. He also has a Dixie Tennesee Rifle and showed me how bad it sparks. (He wasnt plannin on sellin it so he got it dirty to show me what he meant). He told me to save some more and buy a contemporary rifle and it will suit my needs. I really dont want to buy multiple rifles as I dont see the need to have rifles lying around collecting dust. That being said should I go for this Pennsylvania Hunter (It is in good condition by the way) or should I save up some more for a contemporary built rifle of higher quality ?

My 1st flintlock was a musket, I built a Brown Bess kit. That gun has taught pretty much every thing that I needed to know about how to operate and shoot a flintlock. There is a skill in being happily proficient with a flintlock, and it starts with a good quality product.

On my kitgun, there were issues. The fit between the frizzen and the pan was pretty bad, and the gun would not spark. I sent the lock back to Dixie GunWorks and when it came back…it was perfect. Today, I can make those repairs myself, back then I had no clue and had to rely on the skill and knowledge of others.

After several years of shooting my Bess, I bought my next flintlock. This was a semi-custom gun .45 calibre TVM Southern Mississippi PoorBoy (Top Rifle).

What I’m trying to say is…flintlocks are not like percussion guns. There is a higher level of quality needed to produce a good solid quality flintlock. You need a well built quality lock, and the flash hole needs to be properly located. That almost never happens consistently with a commercially manufactured gun. Until you have a good background knowledge, I’d advise you to buy the best quality you can afford for your first (couple of) gun(s).

Having a flintlock that doesn’t function properly just sucks and is no fun. It can ruin your experience and your enjoyment.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Those that advice buying anything because of a low price then having to work on it always seem to have several of them. I’d rather spend enough to get what I want then take care of it. Ever see a yard full of cars that don’t run? How much did he spend on junkers?

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Those that advice buying anything because of a low price then having to work on it always seem to have several of them. I’d rather spend enough to get what I want then take care of it. Ever see a yard full of cars that don’t run? How much did he spend on junkers?

I agree if you are buying some third world nation replica etc but it seems that many people have used T/C ,CVA & TVA Pedersoli or even Investarms GPR's and had few problems. Most major problems were corrected by tuning the lock or replacing it, which still cost $$$ less than buying a high end kit. (IMHO)

 

[Snake Pleskin]

My 1st flintlock was a musket, I built a Brown Bess kit. That gun has taught pretty much every thing that I needed to know about how to operate and shoot a flintlock. There is a skill in being happily proficient with a flintlock, and it starts with a good quality product.

View attachment 157287
On my kitgun, there were issues. The fit between the frizzen and the pan was pretty bad, and the gun would not spark. I sent the lock back to Dixie GunWorks and when it came back…it was perfect. Today, I can make those repairs myself, back then I had no clue and had to rely on the skill and knowledge of others.

View attachment 157294
After several years of shooting my Bess, I bought my next flintlock. This was a semi-custom gun .45 calibre TVM Southern Mississippi PoorBoy (Top Rifle).

What I’m trying to say is…flintlocks are not like percussion guns. There is a higher level of quality needed to produce a good solid quality flintlock. You need a well built quality lock, and the flash hole needs to be properly located. That almost never happens consistently with a commercially manufactured gun. Until you have a good background knowledge, I’d advise you to buy the best quality you can afford for your first (couple of) gun(s).

Having a flintlock that doesn’t function properly just sucks and is no fun. It can ruin your experience and your enjoyment.

I agree Flinters can have more issues.

 

[user 53891]

The PA Hunter rifle is a very good rifle. The single trigger may be a bit rough and strong, but the barrels give good accuracy. To my knowledge there were three variations of that rifle. One has an octagon to round barrel with a twist of 1-66. One was a straight octagon with I believe the same twist. One was a carbine length - like 26" or so I think - others with more knowledge will chime in shortly. There was one other variation that some do not like and I am in that crowd. For some reason TC decided with the later PA Hunters to put the Quick Load (QLA) feature in the barrel. They removed the rifling down from the muzzle end for an inch or so to supposedly make it easier to load. I do not like that feature. Depending on the condition, that is a fair price for one w/o the QLA feature. Use real knapped flints - not the machine made ones.

I have to agree with all of the comments below. If the bore is good and everything else is tight and working properly, go for it. Quality of the flint, a good frizzen, and proper adjustment, reliable shooter.