Trying to Learn

[Walkingeagle]

If I may, I would like to understand something in regards to mass produced “replica” traditional side-lock muzzleloaders, such as Lyman, T/C, Traditions, etc.

I remember on more than one occasion Zoni posting references to historical firearms that very closely resemble those mass produced guns. Now I am aware that the adjustable sights, synthetic ramrods and coil spring locks are modern but outside of that, what else makes them not HC/PC? Please know that I am aware you must match firearm with time period representing, and I am speaking of only wood stocks.

I would be disappointed in a response of “the T/C Hawken is not based on a real Hawken”. With that forget what the mass producers named the gun, that is nothing more than a name after all. Or perhaps that is the whole issue?

Please know I am not trying to start anything, just trying to learn.

Thanks

Walk

 

[NorthFork]

Most of the production guns made are a melting pot of schools of build (styles) and are not meant to be an exact replica of one particular rifle. A trigger guard style from one school, a barrel profile from a later school, an earlier butt plate style, 'wrong' lock plate profile, etc. That causes some folks to dislike and dismiss certain brands/models. Now if you are a reenactor or someone who enjoys living history then you may need a 'screw for screw copy' rifle to complete your persona. For the rest of us, it's something to squabble about. Some of the production models do closely match up to existing original rifles, save a small detail or two, much more than some would like to admit to.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Most of us who have been around this sport for a while got our start with one of those production guns. Many of us still enjoy shooting them and they have killed a lot of game and taken home many prizes as shoots. Also, many of us would probably never been involved in muzzle loading if it hadn't been for the T/Cs, CVAs, Navy Arms, Dixie Gun Works guns from the early years. In those years, it was much harder to find good information and historical documentation. If you lived in a small town with a limited library as I did, finding historical information on original muzzleloaders was difficult. We didn't have a world of information available at the touch of a button. Often what was a available was inaccurate speculation of an older shooter who may or may not have known much. So, I was proud as heck when I could afford a T/C Hawken kit and have a gun that was accurate, reliable and safe.

 

[bang]

Unless you are planning on utter period don't be too concerned about it. As for most you choose what you like and fits the budget because there are other things needed to supply and maintain. Quite frankly I find the prices on the utter period to be utterly high for a BP gun. I personally would never pay more than $400 for any BP gun but that's me.
There are some nice ones out there in that range if you are willing to research and be patient. I recently picked up an unfired, 1975 Remington Zouave after 7 or 8 months of vigilant research of personal ads and studying auction sites. Actually found it on an auction site. Last place I ever thought I would purchase. It's not reenactment period for civil war but is period for civilian milita, which I don't care to involve myself in but do respect.
And for 371 shipped it was good deal for the condition it's in.
So it boils down to mainly budget and practical use for the individual. Period stuff is going to cost. The sling I put on my Zouave had it been period would be around $50. The military 1 1/4 wide that's on it was half. Not period but suitably practical for my use and needs.
Even my molds for casting are not period but then again I'm not going to spend 89-90 or 100 plus for custom made and the projectiles fly just as well.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Most of the production guns made are a melting pot of schools of build (styles) and are not meant to be an exact replica of one particular rifle. A trigger guard style from one school, a barrel profile from a later school, an earlier butt plate style, 'wrong' lock plate profile, etc. That causes some folks to dislike and dismiss certain brands/models. Now if you are a reenactor or someone who enjoys living history then you may need a 'screw for screw copy' rifle to complete your persona. For the rest of us, it's something to squabble about. Some of the production models do closely match up to existing original rifles, save a small detail or two, much more than some would like to admit to.

I see, they do not fit a specific builders style or design, rather more like a parts build of several designs. A “Rat” gun so to speak. I think it all just dawned on me, thank you.
I am not a person of living history at this time, but as in all hobbies one does start to dabble and if interest remains, dabble morphs into more accurate equipment/gear/clothing/etc.
I am at the dabbling stage.
Thank you all.
Walk

 

[NorthFork]

I see, they do not fit a specific builders style or design, rather more like a parts build of several designs. A “Rat” gun so to speak. I think it all just dawned on me, thank you.
I am not a person of living history at this time, but as in all hobbies one does start to dabble and if interest remains, dabble morphs into more accurate equipment/gear/clothing/etc.
I am at the dabbling stage.
Thank you all.
Walk

A "rat" gun is a good way to put it. Instead of an exact copy of say a George Kopp halfstock percussion, a halfstock percussion production rifle would be an amalgamation of umpteen builders styles and decades. If you were trying to personificate a Western settler or trapper than this may matter. An average Joe who likes 1800's percussion halfstocks and wants to target shoot/hunt/have fun this matters little (most of the time).