Trouble at the range today

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Tanker, Jul 13, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Jul 13, 2019 #1

    Tanker

    Tanker

    Tanker

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Fannettsburg PA
    I am more a flintlock guy but I do have a few cap guns. I usually get them out once or twice a year to put a little lead through them. One of my cap guns is a 1860 Pietta 1860 revolver. I was at the range today and my revolver worked really hard once loaded with a cap. Everything was clean, caps went on as far as normal. Used the same caps Remington #10 that I have always used. I disassembled it to check for small pieces of metal in the action. None that I could find. Any ideas on why it's works hard. I guess I should give a better description the working hard. Pulling back the hammer I had to use to hands or thumb on hammer and one one the cylinder to cock it. The strange part also is it didn't always do it. I did not see any caps rubbing anywhere. Any guess of what the issue is? Thanks for any input you have.
     
  2. Jul 13, 2019 #2

    jdw276

    jdw276

    jdw276

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    48
    Mine had cap fragments under the trigger spring thingy. Two thumbs to pull hammef back. 2 1/2 under it.
     
  3. Jul 13, 2019 #3

    BeoBill

    BeoBill

    BeoBill

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    7
    It could be built up powder residue. Try a thorough cleaning.
     
  4. Jul 13, 2019 #4

    jdw276

    jdw276

    jdw276

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    48
    Other option is the wedge was driven in to hard.
     
  5. Jul 13, 2019 #5

    bigted

    bigted

    bigted

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    48
    Make sure the balls/bullets are completely below the cylinder mouth.

    Make sure your arbor is nicely greased.

    Did this occur after shooting began or rite off first thing?

    How lately have you completely stripped it to complete parade rest? Could be crud and cap pieces in the action.
     
  6. Jul 13, 2019 #6

    bigted

    bigted

    bigted

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    48
    Pietta arbors are great as is, maybe a little long ... so ... pounding in the wedge can only go so far, then the arbor will bottom out in the barrel reciever ... Uberti on the other hand have short arbors ... hence ... driving in the wedge too hard will bind up the barrel and shove it into the cylinder face.
     
  7. Jul 13, 2019 #7

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    604
    Location:
    South Texas
    This sounds too simple. It could be any of the above.
     
    PluggedNickel likes this.
  8. Jul 13, 2019 #8

    denster

    denster

    denster

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    28
    Since it only worked hard after it was capped I would suspect a nipple that was not completely screwed in.
     
    PluggedNickel likes this.
  9. Jul 13, 2019 #9

    PluggedNickel

    PluggedNickel

    PluggedNickel

    Still playing Cowboy after all these years! MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    192
    Location:
    London, OHIO
    Look at the forcing cone, is it rubbing the front of the cylinder, as you rotate it? If you put it on half cock does the cylinder rotate freely? Have you checked the main spring screw to see it hasn't worked loose? Does it have a short arbor? If so, installing the barrel wedge too much, can cause the cylinder to forcing cone gap to tighten, and can cause the arbor to flex upward as well. Are all the screws tight? Hammer, Hand, Trigger, Bolt/Cyl. Stop,Trigger & Sear Spring, Bolt Spring? Is the hammer screw too tight?
    I'd say take it down, give it a good clean and lube, and pay attention to any signs of binding on the cylinder, forcing cone face, bolt/cyl stop and hand. Look for burrs, on these parts and peening at the cylinder stop grooves on each chamber.
    How does it cock with the cylinder and barrel removed, just the frame? Did it do it first time you cocked it, or after the first shot? Are you using the same size round balls as always? A heavier load can cause the lead ball/balls to move forward upon recoil, it only take one to do that to jam the cylinder rotation. You probably already know all this.
    You may have tried/checked a lot of these things already.
    Please follow up and let us know what you find out.
     
  10. Jul 13, 2019 #10

    Tanker

    Tanker

    Tanker

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Fannettsburg PA
    Thanks for all the feed back. I used all the same powder, balls, and caps as I always have. It's the same stuff I bought when I got the pistol. I have kit bags for all my BP rifles so when I want to shoot one I grab that bag or box. I just got done taking it down and doing a good cleaning. I'm very OCD with my weapons so I am sure it was clean prior to shooting. With that being said it is always possible I missed something. After stripping everything down I noticed a few things. 1st there was a small Burr on the threads on the one nipple. It MAY have been tight but still not completely seated. 2nd I found a small metal flake in the action. It was the mechanism that rotates the cylinder. I was very very small but it could have been bigger and over time it may have ground down. I found more shaving below the area that kind of supports that. Sorry I don't know the proper term for a lot of the springs and stuff. To answer a few other things that was brought up. I believe it has a large arbor and the wedge is and has always been very tight. I know the balls where well below the cylinder. I have own the pistol for a long time and only shoot it occasionally so I don't rush through the loading because of lack of experience. I try to really pay attention to detail because I just dont do it enough to even pretend to know that I'm good at it. There are no other burrs to be found on the gun. So after a good cleaning and inspection under a magnifying glass I believe I have narrowed it down to this. The Burr on the nipple caused metal to get into the action. The reason I couldnt see it when I stripped it at the range is lighting and eyes aren't as good anymore. So I replaced all nipples cleaned and lubed. In function perfect right now. I will head to the range on Wednesday when my new flintlock gets here and do some firing to see if the problem is fixed. Thanks again for the feed back.
     
  11. Jul 13, 2019 #11

    FishDFly

    FishDFly

    FishDFly

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    214
    OCD, what is that??
     
  12. Jul 13, 2019 #12

    denster

    denster

    denster

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    28
    Obsessive compulsive disorder.
     
  13. Jul 13, 2019 #13

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,384
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    It sounds as if you have solved the problem with your pistol being hard to cock. Good job.

    All too often most of our near insurmountable problems can be solved by a thorough cleaning and reassembly. We do need to put these firearms back together so that the parts that are threaded don't bind in operation, so dried on oils and grease are cleaned. Threads are tightened just enough to hold the parts together and operation is smooth.

    Reminds me of a time at a gun show. I was looking at an 1858 Remington by Uberti that was almost impossible to cock. While I wanted a 36 caliber Remington, I didn't need one. I offered the seller half the asking price based on the fact that the pistol couldn't be readily cocked. The offer was accepted. Upon taking the pistol apart, I found that the machine screw on the hand had backed out several turns and was binding on the frame. Two turns and the function was flawless. Sometimes these repairs aren't that difficult and a good cleaning and reassembly with proper lubricants is all it takes. Other times, problem solving requires coming to a group such as this forum to brainstorm a solution.
     
  14. Jul 13, 2019 #14

    bigted

    bigted

    bigted

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    48
    Glad you have it figured. These victory's give confidence and after a few solved problems, it gets less vexing and tons easier to mentally go thru a problem solving regimine in your mind and come to a couple possible solutions.

    Good job and Welcome to the addiction.
     
  15. Jul 13, 2019 #15

    Tanker

    Tanker

    Tanker

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Fannettsburg PA
    Again thanks to everyone for the help. I will report back on Wednesday after the range trip. Thanks to denster for answering the OCD question. I didn't think of it when I put it down. Where I live that is used all the time as a saying even if you don't have the disorder. We use it as a way to say you want something perfect and not out of place.
     
  16. Jul 13, 2019 #16

    azmntman

    azmntman

    azmntman

    75 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    6,479
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    Northern AZ
    Had an OCD neighbor once, old retired military officer. EVERY Saturady AM at EXACTLY 7:00 he would vacuum the trunk of his car. ? I never ever ever saw him put anything in it or take anything out of it? We all got quirks me thinks.

    My sons Siberian would gather shoes and place them in a circle. He would eat his food to leave a triangle in the bowl, like a piece of pie. Even dogs got quirks
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  17. Jul 13, 2019 #17

    Tanker

    Tanker

    Tanker

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Fannettsburg PA
    You are right we all have quirks. I am retired army. One of mine is clean gun. I will spend hours and hours cleaning a gun. Even if I didn't shoot it. Another is I have to mow in a straight line. My yard isn't square but I will mow it like it was then come back and get the rest. I didn't realize I was doing it until my wife was making fun of me one day for doing it. I blame the army for both. At least that's my excuse.
     
    azmntman and Woodnbow like this.
  18. Jul 15, 2019 #18

    MSW

    MSW

    MSW

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    7,184
    Likes Received:
    62
    Tanker, I don't really thing you have OCD in the clinical sense … if, for instance, you checked the fuel level in the mower over and over and over, and never got around to starting it and cutting the grass, then you have a problem and maybe you should talk to a shrink. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

    As far as cleaning a gun that probably 'doesn't need' cleaning, who am I to say whether or not your gun needs cleaning? If that's how you de- stress (or whatever) then that's your business and the proper response to anyone who complains is "hand me that jag, would you?"

    Embrace the inner crazy guy … (I don't blame the service for my many quirks - I was a bit nuts when I went in and I was a bit nuts when I got out … 68 static line jumps will do that for you) … i'm still probably a bit nuts, or at least mildly eccentric … this doesn't mean that i'm going to crack up completely and end up in a bell tower with a high powered rifle or slamming a u-haul into the crown of people lined up at the ticket gate of the state fair

    served in the 3d ID when we were in Germany (FRG, for those familiar with cold war history) … they 'returned ' the Kitzingen barracks to the German government some years ago … my tanks were parked on the fighter/bomber pads built by the Luftwaffe in the thirties … you could almost smell the history.

    OK - that's the rant … it's safe to come out now.
     
    Tanker likes this.
  19. Jul 15, 2019 #19

    Tanker

    Tanker

    Tanker

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Fannettsburg PA
    Went to the range today and tested the pistol. Shot fine. I put the other nipple in that has a small burr in it and it was hard to work again. I couldnt see where it was catching but as soon as the other nipple was back on it work fine. So the bottom line is I learned a lesson check nipple threads. Maybe clean the threads better also. Not sure why it happened but I will work to not have it happen again. That faulty nipple is on it way to a local landfill to live out the rest of it's days. Thanks for the help.
     
  20. Jul 15, 2019 #20

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,952
    Likes Received:
    726
    Sounds like a high cap rubbing on the back of the frame.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white