trigger anti rattle question

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old ugly

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i am putting together a flintlock fowler. it has a single trigger that is hinged/pinned through the stock.
in the three positions of the tumbler, at rest, 1/2 cock and full cock the height of the sear is different, when at 1/2cock the sear is at its lowest point, full cock it is at its highest point. so between 1/2cock and full cock the trigger just floats and rattles.
i would like to know what, if anything, that you have made to keep the trigger riding on the sear lever but light enough as to not activate the sear?
thanks
ou
tom
 

rich pierce

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The issue is the location and depth of the half and full cock notches. Very small dimensional changes at the sear nose location are magnified at the sear arm. Not usually worth fooling with and the solution of having the trigger put pressure on the sear at full cock is not a safe solution. If extremely annoying one could add a small lifter spring to the trigger blade as suggested.
 

ZUG

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I add a fine diameter wire spring to keep the trigger blade in contact with the sear - simple to do. :thumb:
 

rich pierce

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FWIW those little construction site flags (about 18” wire with a little plastic square flag) have enough carbon to make low stress springs. They work well as pins to pin barrel to the stock as well. Thicker than needed here but can be forged flat. It’s good to keep spring flat stock of various thickness around. But I let my triggers rattle a bit.
 

Walkingeagle

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What if a wire spring was put to keep the trigger off the sear until you physically took up the slack?
Walk
 

dave_person

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Hi OU,
I suspected it was an L&R lock. Is it older than 5 years and does it have a fairly short sear lever arm? By that I mean the length of the sear from the pivot screw to the "L". L&R seems to have changed the tumbler design and sear length for that lock, which improved it greatly. I hate trigger rattle and I consider it evidence of sloppy gunsmithing. L&R locks are notorious for this and the older Queen Anne's were some of the worst. The problem is the half cock notch is too deep relative to the full cock notch so the sear slides in to the notch too far dropping it down lower than its position at full cock. There are few easy solutions and I will outline the two best of them for you. I assure you, I have done all of these so have experience. If you own a welder, a possible solution is to add metal to the top of the trigger bar. That can work if the sear position differences are not very much so you can build up enough metal so there is no rattle at full cock yet the security at half cock is not compromised because the nose of the sear is still well within the notch at half cock. It is just not all the way in being held up by the trigger bar. The second solution is to add a light spring pushing up the trigger bar to keep it in contact with the sear. The best spring material is light wire spring steel, the kind you see for the front trigger on commercially made set triggers. Wrap the spring around a screw anchor on the trigger plate behind the trigger and have it push up the trigger lever. After bending the annealed spring steel to shape, heat it to red with a propane torch and quench in canola oil. Then dry it, coat it with motor oil and flare off the oil with a torch. It will now be tempered and a bit mushy, which you want. Of course the best solution is to buy a good lock or a gun with a good lock.
dave
 

Stophel

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The solution is to STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT. This was not a big concern in the 18th century.

I think many shooters today would go into convulsive apoplectic shock if they were transported back 250 years and forced to use the guns made at that time. ;)
 

Stophel

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You should see what the standard repair was for a trigger that had worn so much it couldn't reach the sear anymore..... even I cringe at that one. :D
 

old ugly

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Hi OU,

dave
Dave,
That is Exactly the problem. the sear goes to deep into the tumbler safety notch. drops a long way.
i could adjust the width of the trigger with a bit of weld and not let the sear all the way into the safety notch but
i think i am going with option 2, the little spring idea. If that fails then back to option #1.
awsum
thanks for your help.
ou
tom
 

dave_person

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Hi,
For reference about original guns, none of my original English guns have triggers that rattle. It is a sign of sloppy work or lousy locks.

dave
 

Vaino

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To begin....I've used mostly Chambers' locks and at least Chambers has made an attempt to position the tumbler notches so the sear positions for half and full cock are the same.....or preferably that the sear position at full cock is slightly lower than at half cock which allows some "rattle" at half cock but eliminates any pretravel at full cock. A little "rattle" at either half or full cock never bothered me, but if it does you, then install a weak spring to eliminate it. .....Fred
 

old ugly

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Fred, the on this lock the sear dropping into the safety slot is quite significant, the trigger moves forward at least 1/8" which means when it is at full cock there is a lot of slack in the trigger.
i have made a little test spring that is working to hold the trigger on the sear, now im off to make the final product, its going to work great.
thanks
ou
 

Col. Batguano

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Since the problem really hast to do with the notches in the tumbler, does L&R sell an "internals upgrade kit" for their older locks? Basically a new sear bar and new tumbler is what you need. Obviously the advice / remedies rendered by Dave and Rich are always succinct and well-reasoned.
 

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