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TRESO ramrod ends

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Dude

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My TC 50 Hawken came sans ramrod so I'm making one. I bought some Treso brass ends and 3/8" Hickory. The treso ends are threaded but the package doesn't give the thread size.

I tried using a 3/8" die (too big) and a 7/16" (too small). Then I tried an M10x1.25 (too big) and M9x1.25 (much too small).

Have any of you made a ramrod using these ends? Any tricks you'd like to share?
 

Grenadier1758

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I turn the hickory ramrod down to slip fit on the brass end. The tip has those threads to give epoxy some rough surface to grab. I epoxy the tip to the rod and run a 1/8" pin through the tip and the ramrod. I slightly countersink the hole. The pin gets a coat of epoxy and is peened into position. That tip won't pull off.
 

Dude

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I thought of going that route. If I can't figure out what size thread is in there, that's what I'll do.
 

nhmoose

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Inside diameter counts not the thread. Thread is to hold epoxy, as long as the end of the rod fits it is good. Pin it also.

You should have bought a made rod for it as by the questions you are making you may not get the rod right. no offense but a man should know his limitations and you seem out of your confidence area.
 

Dude

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"...by the questions you are making you may not get the rod right. "

Ha ha - that's funny. I'm not offended, but if it's that complex, how did anyone ever make these things???

It sounds like you could have some answers so please tell me how you do it.
 

Grenadier1758

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"...by the questions you are making you may not get the rod right. "

Ha ha - that's funny. I'm not offended, but if it's that complex, how did anyone ever make these things???

It sounds like you could have some answers so please tell me how you do it.
Its not that complex. In the past hide glue may have been used before epoxy and a pin used to secure the tip or no brass tip at all.

The threads that matter in the tip are the threads that hold the jag on the ramrod with the tip.
 

Dude

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So you're telling me the threads were cut on a lathe, but no specific size? That being the case it appears the only way to make threads on the rod are with a lathe, but I don't have the gears for my small HF lathe. The wood doesn't hold up that well to thread cutting anyway. I'm not a wood worker so there are probably ways to make good threads. I don't know. Perhaps I'll turn down the end of the rod just a few thousandths larger than the inner diameter and run it in that way - with epoxy, of course.

And, yes, I do know about making sure the grain doesn't angle off creating a possible shear line. Last thing I need is a self inflicted spear wound. And I'm also aware of grasping the rod part way up, not all the way at the end to avoid side loading.
 

longcruise

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I thought of going that route. If I can't figure out what size thread is in there, that's what I'll do.
Just go ahead as @Grenadier1758 explained. I have fastened dozens of these tips just as he describes to both wood and metal rods (on metal you can use solder) and there have been no failures.

I'm aware of the apparent threading on the inside of the tips but I've never really studied them. They may not be threads at all, maybe just concentric grooves.

If you want to simplify, the inside of a 3/8" tip is 5/16 so if you use a 5/16 rod it is a slide in fit so it's just a matter of gluing and pinning. I think a 3/8" rod looks better though and is certainly stronger.

The only tricky part of the process is taking the end of the wood rod down to a clean 5/16". Just go carefully with a file to keep it straight without getting too small and that will give you a straight well aligned tip.

If you need a range rod, just pick up a 5/16" steel or brass rod and solder a tip to it. Glue a handle on using epoxy and a pin but before you do it, slide a 5/16" ID brass bore guide on and the tip and handle will hold it captured.
 

EC121

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If you will slightly countersink/bevel the tip end, you can slide the metal right up to the wood(after you get the perfect straight edge on the wood) by a light tap with a nice tight joint. This will help avoid trying to get a perfect square corner on the wood rebate. Also when you epoxy the tip on put the jag in the tip with some oil on the threads. This avoids having epoxy squirt out into the threads.
 

Zonie

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Ramrods don't have threads on the wood to screw into the brass end. The others are right. The threads inside the brass end are only there to give epoxy something to grab.

Actually, relying on epoxy without something else is a bad way to go too. The best way is to epoxy the tip on and then drill a cross hole thru the tip and the wood that's inside of it.
Here is a brief discription of how I make a ramrod with a brass tip.
To do this, I use a Exacto or other very sharp knife. I also need a flat metal cutting file or a block of wood and some sandpaper along with a electric drill and a 1/16" drill bit. A nail or center punch and a small hammer are also useful. You will also need a short piece of brass wire, 1/16" in diameter and some wire cutters.
Brass wire can be bought at any good hardware store for a buck or two.

1. Measure the depth of the hole inside the ramrod tip.
2. Subtract 1/16" from the measured value and using a pencil, a pen or something, make a mark on the ramrod wood measuring from the end of the rod.
3. Lay the ramrod wood on a table and place the cutting edge of the knife on the mark. Now, roll the ramrod away from you while pushing down on the knife blade and keeping the blade at 90 degrees to the rod. You want to cut into the wood a little deeper than 1/32" all the way around the rod.
4, Using the knife and cutting from the end of the rod, cut a small 45 degree chamfer down thru the wood that is going to be removed making the cut intersect the circumfrencial cut you made in the rod. This should leave a nice, sharp corner for the brass tip to butt up against. The purpose of this cut is to give a small shoulder for the file to bump up against while your removing the wood for the tip.
5. Using the file or sanding block, start filing (sanding) the wood area that's going to go inside the brass tip. Rotate the rod as you do this to try to remove an equal amount, all the way around the rod. When the filed area starts getting down to a size that will fit in the brass tip, go more carefully. You want to end up with the wood size being something that just bearly fits inside the tip.
6. Mix up some epoxy and coat the filed area on the wood and the inside of the brass tip with it.
7. Slide the tip onto the rod pushing it on until it hits the shoulder on the wood and set it aside to cure.

8. Using a small nail or center punch with a hammer, tap a small indention about 1/8" from the shoulder into the brass tip.
9. Using a 1/16 drill bit and the indentation to keep the drill from "walking", drill straight down thru the brass tip wall, the wood and thru the other side of the brass tip.
10. Use a pocket knife or the hobby knife with a tapered blade to form a small countersink in both sides of the hole in the tip. Just put the tip in the hole and rotate the knife around and around to do this. It doesn't have to look pretty.

11. Cut the brass wire so that it is about 1/16" longer than the diameter of the brass tip and push it thru the hole so an equal amount sticks out of both sides.
12. Place one end of the wire against a hard surface and using the hammer, lightly tap the upper end of t0 form it into the countersink. Once it is slightly mushroomed, turn the rod 180 degrees, place the mushroomed end of the wire against the hard object and then mushroom the exposed end down like you did the first end.
13. Using the file, remove any of the wire that is still sticking up above the outside of the brass tip.

Your done.

Below is a sketch of what the pinned tip should look like

RAMROD.jpg
 
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ZUG

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That's because Zonie is an engineer and has the ability to explain by words and drawings EXACTLY what needs to happen for the outcome to be successful. ;) :thumb:
 

Pietro

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Dude, IMO you're overthinking it......

Just use the K.I.S.S. principle & install the ends as Zonie specified.

.
 

Dude

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Thanks a bunch guys! And thank you Zonie - it's not a difficult task, but it is nice knowing exactly how you've made them to last.

I've got a lathe so turning it down to size isn't a problem. But it's good being told to sand it as it gets close - the cutting bit leaves it a bit rough and I might not have thought of that fine point right off. I've got six or seven inches extra length so there's plenty of practice territory.

I had asked Don at Treso for instructions and here's what he sent me today. One thing I'd asked was the internal thread size:

The thread size is 11/32 x 20; not a standard size. If you are fitting the tips to a hickory rod, I suggest turning the hickory down to a tight fit and use epoxy and pin the tip to the rod. Epoxy will not adhere to brass but the threads insure locking the tip to the wood.

Don
 

Ridge

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That makes sense to me. I've never used epoxy when building a rod. Not that I knew anything about epoxy not adhering to brass (sounds dubious to me...there are a lot of epoxies out there) but simply because I'm cheap. When the rod inevitably breaks I want to reuse that tip. It's a lot easier to do if there isn't any epoxy in it.

Otherwise I do it pretty much the way Zonie explains it.
 

Two Feathers

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Howdy Dude:
I've been making ball straters and ramrods since the 70's and other than using a mini pipe cutter to take the place of the knife, I do it exactly the same way Zonie described it! I'm set up to "hold" the tips while I drill my 1/16" brass pin holes. Other than that, I HAVE never found an actual Tap or Die that matches those threads, and I'm a machinist. I've found that those "threads" inside the ramrod tips are just Perfunctory marks to hold the epoxy, not really threads. If you do as Zonie described, you'll be fine.
Good luck.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 

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