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Traditions is the "Harbor Freight Tools" of Muzzleloading?

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CVA got sued over a gun with a pressed in breech plug blowing up -- at least that's what I read. The current CVA is a different company that only sells inline cheater guns. Traditions now sells the traditional sidelock models CVA made. I'm not sure what legal hoohoo went down. It's all good.


That wasn't a CVA, it was a factory conversion of a single barrel break open shotgun to a muzzleloader. The plug was held in by O rings which was fine unless you had a hang fire and broke the gun open. The only CVA breech I've seen fail was on U Tube and involved a lot of abuse and enough smokeless to kill an elephant.
 
The event happened well before i was a club member but i recall the late Andy Fautheree inspected the gun saying the threads in the the bolster had stripped out with a "normal" load and the hammer sheared off in process. They used to check us newbies stuff and used the roof "display" to make their points. Andy was one of my mentors and a ML master gunsmith, Do google him.

I was a mechanic for years and my thoughts are Bubba tightened the nipple to 97 ft.-lbs. destroying the threads before the gun was loaded. "Ya gots to get em tite or thell blow out."
 
I was a mechanic for years and my thoughts are Bubba tightened the nipple to 97 ft.-lbs. destroying the threads before the gun was loaded. "Ya gots to get em tite or thell blow out."
I'd believe that. As to the lawsuit, I just read about it. I thought it was a double Express rifle or something. Whichever. CVA today is just inlines. CVA then, as in Connecticut Valley Arms, sold sidekicks at a good price. Got many, many of us into the hobby.
 
IIRC the pistol in question was one with a forged on bolster and was told later it was repaired by retapping the nipple hole and replacing the sheared tumbler. Never saw the nipple as it was reportedly buried deep in the wood roof.
 
Some folks just like throwing something against the wall & seeing if it sticks!

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I started with a H&R Huntsman unmentionable and gravitated to TCs starting in the early 70s. I don't think I ever saw a CVA or Traditions gun that wasn't a good shooter although I never owned one. Seeing as how I can have $1100 in parts on any nice gun I build now I sure wouldn't fault anyone for going a cheaper route with a Traditions.

With TCs as popular as they are now, I have often wondered if someone were to buy the rights and revive the Hawken using modern CNC shaping and precision fit and finishing if it would be a money maker.

I consider the TC Hawkens to be the 30-30 of the M/L world and suspect like the venerable 30-30 if it was back in production it would never die.
 
With TCs as popular as they are now, I have often wondered if someone were to buy the rights and revive the Hawken using modern CNC shaping and precision fit and finishing if it would be a money maker.
Sadly, with the statistics we know about current participation and demographics in ML sports ... probably not. :confused:
 
Think TC's are more popular now than when they were in production. I do chuckle when the TC's "lifetime guarantee" is touted by sellers.
It's funny, I have been fully satisfied with my Renegade that I've owned for 25 years since new. Just recently I stumbled back into being more interested in MLs again thanks to my little girl. Last I knew, the Hawken was the only traditional ML TC offered, didn't even know that all TC production had been halted. When I went on GB looking for my Hawken, I couldn't believe the prices on them. I always held TC in high regard as a very good quality production rifle, having some idea that there are custom builders out there turning out exemplary rifles but in a class of their own. Seems that just like many things, people all of the sudden gain a deeper appreciation for a thing after it's been discontinued. Or maybe it's just the selling point of "you can't get these anymore". IDK, would sure be nice to be able to get a well cared for used TC traditional ML for a couple hundred bucks again... I only paid $279 for my 'Gade brand new in '96. 😂
 
One of TC downsides is that some of the parts tend to break and new ones may be scarce. When we we actively repairing them we had a heck of time getting warranty replacements. Think S&W or berretta (?) took over when TC went under. Hammers and lock parts like sears, tumblers and flys seemed scarce at time see some available but pricey. I do see lots of locks for sale on net and wonder as to why?
 
like HF tools, they generally work; they just may not be as nice or suited for exactly what you want as something more custom. Of course, the same thing goes for a lot of "custom" shops that produce the exact same thing as everyone else... would you like an SMR, "trade gun/fusil de commerce" or "Hawken" with mass-cast Steel fittings or with Brass, mass-milled L&R or Chambers lock, Maple or fancier maple, poor sights or poor sights, thick straight octagonal or thick visibly swamped barrel, 40+ or 40+ length barrel? Lol.

Then again, Traditions imports most of their line as an entry point into the sport. The overwhelming majority of entry level Muzzleloaders (the people) don't really know what they want when they first get into it. Do you like "X" stock shape or is "Y", "Z", or "A" more your taste? what LOP do you prefer (after a few shots with one that it too long, short, or poorly shaped for shat you're doing, you figure out that you don't want that). What set-up or aesthetic do you like?
I've made my own guns for 8 years at this point, and I still have a Tradition's "PA Pellet" (granted, it became a project gun and no longer resembles the original form it was in, but the core of the gun is still what Tradition's imported back when I was 15).

There's no replacement for a custom gun (be it traditional ML, modern inline, primitive breechloader, or modern metallic breechloader), just like there's no replacement for top-tier tools... but then again, you don't have to spend custom prices to get something functional.
 
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Jackleg: I recently purchased a Traditions [Pietta] 1860 Colt revolver. It is half fluted with nickel plating and gold plated cylinder, hammer and trigger. It is really nice, has never been shot or dry-fired. The only negative is the silly white plastic grips. I think I have a pair of grips to fit it .. somewhere in my junk. I have owned, and still own CVA and Traditions guns. I have experienced no real problems but have done some 'tuning' on a few. I currently own two, made in America, mountain rifles, a frontier rifle from way back, and several Kentucky and Hawken pistols. I also have a CVA Hawken which I have altered a lot to resemble one of the unusual original Hawken rifles. I have been shooting them, along with more expensive guns, for a long time and loved every minute [Just my 32 1/2 cents worth Polecat]
 
One of TC downsides is that some of the parts tend to break and new ones may be scarce. When we we actively repairing them we had a heck of time getting warranty replacements. Think S&W or berretta (?) took over when TC went under. Hammers and lock parts like sears, tumblers and flys seemed scarce at time see some available but pricey. I do see lots of locks for sale on net and wonder as to why?
If you will pardon an ignorant question: can locks and triggers from other quality makers of those parts be fitted to a TC if ever the need arose? I'm thinking there is no simple yes or no answer. Just a curiosity if the time comes I need something like that, or maybe an upgrade of sorts
 
Jackleg: I recently purchased a Traditions [Pietta] 1860 Colt revolver. It is half fluted with nickel plating and gold plated cylinder, hammer and trigger. It is really nice, has never been shot or dry-fired. The only negative is the silly white plastic grips. I think I have a pair of grips to fit it .. somewhere in my junk. I have owned, and still own CVA and Traditions guns. I have experienced no real problems but have done some 'tuning' on a few. I currently own two, made in America, mountain rifles, a frontier rifle from way back, and several Kentucky and Hawken pistols. I also have a CVA Hawken which I have altered a lot to resemble one of the unusual original Hawken rifles. I have been shooting them, along with more expensive guns, for a long time and loved every minute [Just my 32 1/2 cents worth Polecat]

Yeah, Pietta has gone to using a variety of grips now and some folks just haven't paid much attention to the change and are a bit disappointed in the plastic grips. The faux ivory grips are now on most of the nickel plated revolvers they offer, but those new checkered wood grips are nice!
 
Many of us of “advanced yearage” probably got their start using the old Lee whackamole tools. Sometimes, a budget tool is the only way a person can afford to get their foot in the door. Lee molds are some of the best kept secrets out there. Of the more economically priced guns, Traditions are among the best. I’ll also jump onto the great barrel bandwagon. A few of the Harbor Freight tools aren’t worth their salt but not all are bad. Just like guns I suppose. I love my little Crockett rifle. Once I was told how to fix my hammer to make it fire, it is among my most dependable muzzleloaders. With sites like this one to help us out, we have the means to take care of most shortcomings the cheaper priced guns like Traditions may have.

I’ll agree with you to a point... I ordered 5/8 flints from traditions and they sent me tiny flints that looked like toys. They were supposed to be English made flints for my plains rifle. Thank god I also ordered from track of the wolf, they sent the correct ones +some flat 2” long pieces that I do not know what they are for. Well in this case Traditions screwed up. So I don’t buy from them any more.
 
If you will pardon an ignorant question: can locks and triggers from other quality makers of those parts be fitted to a TC if ever the need arose? I'm thinking there is no simple yes or no answer. Just a curiosity if the time comes I need something like that, or maybe an upgrade of sorts
I have seen some parts like flys offered by TOTW. Every broken TC lock part i have seen has a very granular appearance on the broken area. Replacing parts seems extreme (and costly) but may be worth it. Not sure i ever read any reviews of the performance difference between a TC coil spring lock and a good V spring one,
 
Not sure i ever read any reviews of the performance difference between a TC coil spring lock and a good V spring one,
V spring or coil spring are good, those one or those other, just the historical side (also in competition (like the F... MLAIC) is considered different, but sometime with certain reserve : Leonardo da Vinci made a lock with a coil spring near the year 1500, so, about the historically correct..... ;)
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I have seen some parts like flys offered by TOTW. Every broken TC lock part i have seen has a very granular appearance on the broken area. Replacing parts seems extreme (and costly) but may be worth it. Not sure i ever read any reviews of the performance difference between a TC coil spring lock and a good V spring one,
All good hardened steel parts have a granular appearance at the breakage and this is quite normal: hardening causes a molecular modification of the steel and thus a certain "crystallization".
A non-heat treated steel will not have this grainy appearance, but this is also the reason why it will never be hardened or tempered.
The ordinary steels on Italian weapons, for example, are not hardened, but ordinary steel that is case-hardened at the working points, and this is sometimes a problem with these parts that wear out, but do not break because the steel is too soft...
Another modern and increasingly frequent thing that gives a grainy appearance is the manufacture of parts by micro-fusion instead of forging and machining...
 
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