Traditions Hawken 50 Caliber "Iron sight picture" issue help??

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timh

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Hi All,
I recently bought a Traditions Hawken 50 caliber rifle and I plan to sight it in this coming weekend. I have another traditions 50 caliber with a scope (I'm an older guy), and have no issues. But, this Hawken has factory iron sights that I'd like to try using. But, when I put my cheek up to the stock, the front sight seems too low to get the front bead into the "V" of the rear sight no matter how hard I bear down on the stock. I'm hoping that once on the range, I'll adjust the rear sight up considerably to be able to actually aim it at anything. Perhaps the factory just screwed in the rear sight down to the barrel with no adjustment?

I was wondering if anybody else had this problem? I've never owned a Hawken before, but have been hunting with iron sights forever until the eyes needed tri-focals... I would appreciate any comments!
 

bang

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Odd problem. Can't seem to be able to picture it. Perhaps measuring the height of the front sight then adjust the rear to same might be good starting point.
 

timh

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Odd problem. Can't seem to be able to picture it. Perhaps measuring the height of the front sight then adjust the rear to same might be good starting point.
Thanks for your response!
 

bang

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I have a Hawken and haven't had an issuse as you describe and my sight is all the way down. All the way plus because I had to trim a small bit off the adjustment screw to get it completely down.
 

timh

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I have a Hawken and haven't had an issuse as you describe and my sight is all the way down. All the way plus because I had to trim a small bit off the adjustment screw to get it completely down.
I just checked the back sight and it's completely screwed tight all the way down. Perhaps the factory ships it that way? To get the front bead in the "v" of the back sight, I adjusted it 6 clicks up. We'll see what happens this weekend... Thanks again "bang"!
 

bang

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Mine shoots on at 25 yards all the way down. Standard factory sight. It was about 2 inches high till I trimmed the screw. Before that you could push it down just a bit. I put white paint on the rear sight to get a good contrast to the front sight. Old eyes.
 

timh

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I'm located in Santa Clara, California, but I grew up in Southwestern PA which is where I go hunting. Too many laws and people out here! You?
 

bang

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Texas. Be glad you have place to hunt. It's gone nuts here. Costs a fortune.
 

Zonie

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I just checked the back sight and it's completely screwed tight all the way down. Perhaps the factory ships it that way? To get the front bead in the "v" of the back sight, I adjusted it 6 clicks up. We'll see what happens this weekend... Thanks again "bang"!
For some reason, it sounds like you can't move your head up or down to line up your eye with both sights at the same time.
I can't imagine why this could be but that's the way I read both of your posts about the sights. I suppose if you have a very wide face that might happen.
Is your cheek resting against the cheek piece on the stock?

In any case, if you raised the rear sight 6 clicks to get it up to a place where you can line up the sights, don't be surprised if the gun shoots above the point of aim.
Raising the rear sight moves the point of impact up.
The only way of lowering the point of impact if you can't live with a lower rear sight position is to install a taller front sight.

Track of the Wolf sells taller front sights but installing them can involve a bit of filing to get them to fit the dovetail in the barrel.
 

Walkingeagle

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I cannot get my head low enough to align the sights on those guns as well (my better half has one), same with the TC Hawken sights. The problem is that the comb hight is too high. I restocked my TC Renegade to both eliminate this issue as well to gain a more historical profile. My issue is the large mass in my neck from having my C2 and C3 vertebrae's broken and healing like a baseball. Each of us has different proportions and guns that fit most folks don’t necessarily fit all.
I have bought and sold far too many very expensive sporting shotguns due to failure on fit.
Walk
 

timh

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Thanks for the advice "zonie." I imagine that I'll be shooting high when I start. I understand what you're saying "Walkingeagle." Perhaps it's because I'm not used to shooting with this kind of rifle (my other is a scoped in-line muzzleloader). When I DO get a good sight picture, the bottom butt of the stalk rests on my clavicle not where its supposed to be tucked into the armpit. I know BP is a slower kick, but I still worry because this Hawken has pointed stalk ends that could do some damage to this old guy... If after I shoot a few at the range I can't get it right, then I'll try finding a different front sight. I'd hate to put a scope on the rifle as it's supposed to be shot with open sights... I'll have to see if it's even tapped for one.
Thanks again zonie & walkineagle!!
 

bang

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On mine with the rear sight all the way down it is a good 1/8 inch lower than the front sight. For good eyes that should be low at 25 yards but my old eyes needs to see more front sight so it hits on at 25 yards.
 

Sidney Smith

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I know a lot of guys who purposely crank the rear sight all the way down then adjusting point of aim usually by filing the front sight down. However that usually involves a front sight that is a little on the tall size. Seems in this scenario his sight was short to begin with.
 

timh

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Hey Pete44RU! Great picture!! I am definitely seeing D in your pictures. Even a touch higher... Meanhile I was used to seeing "A" my whole hunting career till the eyes needed specs.... That's exactly my problem! What's the fix? It seems as though I can't bear down enough on the stock to get anything close to "A" without the bottom of the rifle butt digging into the top of my shoulder
 

Zonie

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Thanks for the advice "zonie." I imagine that I'll be shooting high when I start. I understand what you're saying "Walkingeagle." Perhaps it's because I'm not used to shooting with this kind of rifle (my other is a scoped in-line muzzleloader). When I DO get a good sight picture, the bottom butt of the stalk rests on my clavicle not where its supposed to be tucked into the armpit. I know BP is a slower kick, but I still worry because this Hawken has pointed stalk ends that could do some damage to this old guy...
Thanks again zonie & walkineagle!!
These rifles with curved buttplates like the Hawken were designed to be shot off of the arm, not in the armpit like modern rifles.

Your Hawken has a rather mild curve compared with many of the original rifles from the mid 1850's.

The idea is to place the butt of the stock slightly outward from the armpit so that the pointed end is hanging down under the arm. It doesn't take a lot of movement to change it to the right place so, no, I am not saying move the butt way out on your arm under the bicep muscle. Just move it so the point at the toe of the butt plate is under your arm.
I know this will feel strange to you when you first try it, but after shooting the gun this way you will get used to it.
 

timh

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Thanks Zonie... So I'll back off the 6 clicks I adjusted last night and try your approach. It DOES feel strange, but maybe that's how to shoot these Hawkens....
 

hanshi

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Zonie is correct. any deep curved butt plate will make your shoulder hurt for days and could possibly break the skin.
 

Frontier's

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Sounds to me like it has an aftermarket rear sight which is super low and cruddy.

Zero issues with the factory rear sights on mine.

My other with a lyman great plains sight installed into a new dovetail I cut.
 

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