Traditions (Chiappa) Enfield 1853 Kit

[Melnic]

OK,
So this is an Enfield 1853 Kit. Purchased through Muzzle-loaders.com and imported by Traditions. My saga started in Early December when I purchased an early Xmas present to myself and planned to work on it over the holidays when I had plenty of "ME TIME" built up to use. It was pretty much an impulse buy as I did very little research on this kit since it was new (my bad) Well, first thing that happened is opened it up and I could not believe they shipped the barrel sitting in the stock unscrewed. First thing I did was look at the wood around the tang and sure enough, a chip. manure, well I'll expect good Customer Service. After a few calls, Traditions said they would work on it. Well, calls and emails continued for over 5 weeks trying to find out when I'd get a replacement stock. I almost started a charge back on my Amex several times until promised I'd get a replacement. All the while "thank you for being patient at our busiest time of the year". Finally in early January, I was given a call tag to ship the whole kit back and yesterday I finally received the replacement.

Picture of the chipped stock

 

[Melnic]

Pictures of Kit

Currently IMO, the kit price is high. muzzle-loaders.com has it listed right now for $720.
I had picked it up on sale in Dec for a little over $600 before I found out it was a rebadged Chiappa/Armi Sport
Heck, that $720 is pretty much what you will be paying for a finished Chiappa if you look around and shop for pricing.

 

[Melnic]

As I'm working on fitting the parts for the lock, barrel, trigger, I'm contemplating how I will finish it.
Looking at Chiappa listings, it says its American Walnut.
First thought was to use a wood conditioner and then stain with English Chestnut stain.
Followed by BLO or Real Tung Oil.
I know where my BLO is, but after my move 2 years ago, I have not found what I did with the Tung Oil I used on my last 2 Kit builds (Dixie Cub Flint and Lyman GP).

One thing I'm contemplating is sanding off the bill boards on the Barrel. The barrel will be blued so it won't stand out like it does not, but the texture is really rough with the laser engraving so that is a big minus.
One thing I can do is sand them both down till the writing is very faint. Faint enough that it takes a close up look to see them. I say this cause I did this to a Flint pistol and you have to take ALOT of metal off to get it to the point that you can see nothing. Maybe if its just faint, then I can have the utility of the Info being available for future shooters w/o the uglyness. I am not planning a full DEFARB or anything that would in the far future lead someone uneducated to think its an original.

 

[satwel]

As I'm working on fitting the parts for the lock, barrel, trigger, I'm contemplating how I will finish it.
Looking at Chiappa listings, it says its American Walnut.
First thought was to use a wood conditioner and then stain with English Chestnut stain.
Followed by BLO or Real Tung Oil.
I know where my BLO is, but after my move 2 years ago, I have not found what I did with the Tung Oil I used on my last 2 Kit builds (Dixie Cub Flint and Lyman GP).

Based on personal experience, I would not recommend using BLO. BLO, as it comes from the store, does not dry completely plus it is not a very durable finish for a firearm. There are drying compounds you can add to BLO, but it's a lot of trial and error to get the finish to harden. I have completed three flintlock smoothbores over the past four years and I've had great success using either Permalyn stock finish or Chambers Oil. I prefer the satin sheen of the Chambers gunstock oil, especially on walnut. Both are pretty much foolproof if you follow the directions.

I've never used it myself but I know Tung Oil is a much better gunstock finish than BLO. Tung oil is what Springfield Armory applied to M1 Garand rifle stocks. Please don't use BLO on your Enfield stock. There are many readily-available, easy-to-use alternative finishes that will give you superior results.

 

[Melnic]

thx, still looking for my tung oil.
What do you suggest for the brand/type of stain?

 

[satwel]

thx, still looking for my tung oil.
What do you suggest for the brand/type of stain?

Personally, I would not stain the walnut. That's one of the neat things about it.
If you do decide to stain the stock, Laurel Mountain Forge makes two, alcohol-based walnut stains; walnut and American walnut. One of them has a slight red undertone. I can't remember which. I have used the walnut stain on maple gun stocks. Birchwood Casey makes a water-based walnut stain that can be found in most any gun store. I have never used the Birchwood Casey stain. Track of the Wolf website carries both brands.

Some gun builders use Fiebing's Leather Dyes as a stock stain. By overlaying multiple shades, they can achieve a wide variety of colors. I have no experience with Fiebing's. I believe they are also alcohol based.

 

[Melnic]

thx satwel.

I finished some fitting of the barrel and here are some before and after pics of how high up the barrel was sitting. There were some high spots in the slot for the tang and at the breech end. I also sanded down the billboards. I left the serial # and there is a mfg mark on the bottom of the barrel that I also left intact.

After wetting the wood, you can see my dilema, the left and right side of the gun have a different darkness. If you look at the lighter side, you can see the dark at the top of the butt stock. So just oiling is not going to look good IMO.

 

[arcticap]

Pictures of Kit
Currently IMO, the kit price is high. muzzle-loaders.com has it listed right now for $720.
I had picked it up on sale in Dec for a little over $600 before I found out it was a rebadged Chiappa/Armi Sport
Heck, that $720 is pretty much what you will be paying for a finished Chiappa if you look around and shop for pricing.

At least you bought a kit that was imported by Traditions which offers a warranty and has respectable customer service.
Aren't they the only company offering the Chiappa muskets as a kit?

Maybe if Traditions gets enough complaints and returns of damaged stocks they will work with Chiappa and figure out a way to protect the stocks during shipping.

As far as the difference in stock color, it could be worse.
I hope that you can figure out an acceptable solution.
Good luck!

 

[Melnic]

Well, in my case, waiting almost 2 months for the replacement does not IMO qualify for "respectable customer service".

 

[arcticap]

Well, in my case, waiting almost 2 months for the replacement does not IMO qualify for "respectable customer service".

I somewhat agree that 2 months is a long time.
But why didn't you return the damaged kit to Muzzle-Loaders dot com?
When you first opened up the package and noticed that it was damaged, did you ask the vendor if you could exchange the damaged kit for another one?
Usually when folks get defective merchandise in the mail, the vendor takes care of the problem.
In many cases, places like Cabela's will ship the customer a replacement in exchange for the damaged item.
Some place along the line, the item seems to have been damaged in transit which is covered by the vendor's return policy below.

It's a good idea for anyone buying a gun by mail order to look at the vendor's return policy, or ask the company questions about it.
Even though it took 2 months, at least you received the replacement that you were entitled to.
Did muzzle-loaders dot com tell you to contact Traditions in order to get an exchange?
Was that their only kit available of that model or something?
It would seem that when you failed to return the kit to muzzle-loaders dot com for an exchange, that you lost the right to return it for a refund if you weren't satisfied with the new item.


The vendor's return policy states:--->>> https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/faq

"Can I return guns for a refund if I don't use them?

Yes, we have a 30-day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee. We accept returns on all black powder guns that have not been used, fired or registered, no questions asked. All returns are subject to a 5% Restocking Fee. If you would like to make a return, please contact our customer service department.....

....Restocking Fees

No restocking fee deducted from the refund, if:

• If you received an incorrect item
• If the item is not as described on our website
• If the item is damaged in shipment

***In the event of any errors on our behalf, Muzzle-Loaders.com will send a pre-paid return label for shipment

Returns & Replacements
Other Notes:

• 
  
  • Customer must pay for return postage on all returns or exchanges "

 

[Melnic]

hind sight is 20-20.
Muzzle-Loaders redirected me to Traditions. Traditions first responded in less than a day. It sounded like at first that all they had to do was send me a replacements stock and I could start on the barrel first. I delayed work waiting to hear what would be sent, but then I was strung along and with the business of the Holiday season I let them do it to me. yes, I should have just returned and done a charge back but that is on me. If I had known the continuing, (I'll talk to xxxx and get back to you.....we are checking on stock) would have just went on , I would have done that.
What is on Traditions is that I had to wait that long for action which should not have happened if they had consistent good service.
Like said, hind sight is 20-20. knowing what I know now, I would have initiated a charge back and returned to muzzle-loaders.

 

[arcticap]

Thanks for explaining it.
It would seem that the stock will need to be stained a darker color if you want the color to be uniform.
Are you going to try a darker shade of red or brown color, or do you have something else in mind?

 

[Rat]

Wow, good job on the barrel markings. Those were certainly "over the top". Excessive. Too much. Overdone. !!! To really get a good oil stock finish, like your return policy, takes months. It does not mean you can't handle, or even shoot the gun, but it can take many many coats. It can/usually take(s) me six months to really get it where I want it.

What works good for me is to stain the stock, if needed, (I usually don't) Then I will rub it down/in with Danish Oil/Stain, with my fingers, not a rag. I'll do that every other day for a week. If the wood does not seem smooth enough to me, I'll start rubbing the oils/finish in with very fine steel wool a couple of times. Really fine scotch brite pads are good for the entire duration. The Danish oil is supposed to be a sealer, but really isn't, the wood will continue to absorb other oils, or more Danish oil/stain.

Then I go to working it over weekly, than maybe twice a month, or whenever I feel like it, until the finish really "takes". I'll let it sit "wet" for a couple of days, after an application, then work it over with a clean dry rag. Towards the end, I mix a tiny bit of True Oil, which there is nothing true about, with any kind of oil (not motor oil ) just to harden things up a bit. Olive oil, grapeseed oil, walnut oil, just about anything will work in the latter stages, when you might want to stop with the Danish Oil, because the wood might be getting really dark. Or a bit of "Minwax Tung oil finish", which is not tung oil at all but a space age finish, which will seal things up. But just a tiny mix, you don't want it to get glossy. I can't find real tung oil anywhere, but that would probably be best.

It's a long process, but the results are that old time, dark, satin oil finish. Again, you can handle and use the gun during the process.

 

[Melnic]

I forgot to take pics yesterday but worked on the stock over the weekend. Here is a before pic of the trigger guard where I had to take down the wood.
I have also started to work on the casted brass butt plate and trigger guard which need to be worked to get it smoothed out. The butt plate really had some cracks in the casting that needed to be taken down. on the inside of the stock there is a dividing line of the dark vs light grain just like the 2 sides. I am going to experiment with some stains there where its hidden from view once assembled.

Stock had some high spots, tooling marks, waves and such that I took down. It is all sanded to a 180 grit now. I will continue next with 220 (was all out, need to buy some at the Hardware Store).

I assembled everything last night for a dry fit. Couple things I noticed is the stock to barrel fit with the barrel bands was pretty loose. The barrel flops around inside there about 50 thousandths. Only option I have come up with was to use come cork sheet in the barrel channel of the stock to pull the barrel up and into the bands. This is my first kit with barrel bands so any suggestions would be welcome for me to consider. The spring under the barrel to hold the ramrod in is REALLY tight, I did not get to it last night but it needs to be bent some or it will be a bear to working that rod in and out of the stock.

The screw holes in the rear sight and the threaded holes in the barrel did not line up (as an Engineer, I find this unacceptable that they would go through release of the kit that way). I took a dremmel and cylindrical milling bit and slotted 50 thousandths the rear hole in the sight base where it will be hidden from sight.

 

[Rat]

Thinking about your dark and light wood, I believe most of that would/will go away, or be very un-noticeable once you start working the wood over with stain, oil, or however you are going to finish the stock. On the other hand, I personally would find (and do find) such anomalies in wood to be desireable, adding character and being unique. My Brown Bess, which was a kit, has some really unique wood, I'll see if I can take some pics that really show it.

I think on the barrel band thing, you will want to shim the barrel up until they are tight, then glass bed the barrel into the stock. That won't hurt accuracy either. !!!

 

[Rat]

Here's the stock on my Bess, now there's a contrast between light and dark wood. But I love it. Would not change it.

 

[Melnic]

rat, yea, I thought about leaving it, but its just that its like half and half. I would have prefered it if they cut the wood so that it was say dark on top and light on the bottom.

 

[Rat]

Forgot to mention, when that wood was un-finished, raw, the contrast was very "stark". Now after years of being worked over with Danish oil, and other oils, it's a very mellow contrast, and doesn't jump out at you. Again, I love it, some people may have sent it right back and demanded another stock.

 

[Rat]

rat, yea, I thought about leaving it, but its just that its like half and half. I would have prefered it if they cut the wood so that it was say dark on top and light on the bottom.

Most likely it will blend together just from overall staining, and finishing, probably won't be noticeable to anyone except you...although you are the one that matters.

 

[Melnic]

So, I had trial fit all the parts at the beginning and I know I had some interference with the ramrod. I thought it was the spring under the barrel cause it hit it and was a pain to go past it. Well, in the process of fixing the spring I removed the lock for when I was finished up bending the spring. My bad. Cause now that I"m about to start doing the finish on the wood, I trial fit everything again and found that the front lock bolt is hitting the ramrod. Yup, the ramrod hole in the stock it too high up and hitting the bolt. I can get by with filing the bolt so that when the bolt is timed right, will have a notch in it to allow the ramrod but I think I'm going to see if I can put a dowel with sand paper on half of it and maybe fashion a spring on the other side to try and slot the ramrod hole. I'm rather ****** off at this kit and Traditions/Chiappa for releasing this kit before its ready. I already had to drill a slot in the rear sight (slot is hidden under the flip up part of the sight thankfully. Plus the original chipped stock.

WORD TO THE WISE, do not buy this as a kit. This Traditions Kit is not ready for prime time.

I'll keep forging forward as I'm so far into this I don't want to return it.