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Tradiions percussion kit question

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Danno

32 Cal
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Just getting into muzzleloaders, decided to build a traditions Kentucky kit. I'm in the process and may have an issue with the lock and barrel alignment. The hammer sits on the extreme right side of the nipple. It does sit over the nipple and does not rub on it. My question is do I need to try and adjust the lock or barrel so that it is more centered. I'm really happy with the way everything else sits right now but if it will affect the functionality of the weapon the I will attempt to adjust it.
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If it works and doesn't rub with a cap on the nipple, I would not mess with it. They make the hammer cup wide so that minute adjustments would not be necessary. IMHO
 
Doesn't look too bad from that angle, Does the hammer cup fit over the nipple with a cap on it?
Is the lock bolt too tight?
 
I have a TC Hawken Kit I put together 40 years ago. It has a hammer that is off like yours. It has always been reliable. As Crow-Feather noted, if it works don't mess with it. Hammers can be heated and bent, but I wouldn't attempt it unless it isn't reliable.
 
As I see the photo there are two ways to alighn the hammer/nipple if needed. One is to heat and bend the hammer, the other is to shim out the lock. Either way will work if needed. But as they say:" if it ain't broke don't fix it!"
 
As I see the photo there are two ways to alighn the hammer/nipple if needed. One is to heat and bend the hammer, the other is to shim out the lock. Either way will work if needed. But as they say:" if it ain't broke don't fix it!"
At this stage of the game, I do not recommend doing either of the things you mentioned.

The side to side location of the hammer to the nipple is easily adjusted by changing the depth of the small areas in the lock mortise to allow the top or the bottom of the lock to sit slightly deeper than it now does.
It doesn't take much wood removal to make a big difference so, I recommend using a scraping technique. In other words, using the sharp edge of a chisel held almost 90 degrees to the wood surface, scrape it back and forth on the surface that needs to be deeper. It will only remove small amounts of wood so this takes a while to do. Keep inserting and removing the lock while checking the position of the hammer to check on the need to remove more wood.

As I said, it doesn't take a lot of wood removal to make a difference. For instance, I've had several factory made rifles that had a similar problem with the hammer/nipple alignment. Just scraping off the stock finish that they sprayed onto the lock mortise surfaces was enough to fix the problem.

People buy these factory made kits with the idea that they can just slap the parts together and everything will line up. This rarely happens.
It always takes a bit of trimming and fitting of the lock, butt plate, side plate and sometimes the barrel in addition to the normal sanding and finishing the outside of the stock to build one of these "kits" into something that looks as good or better than a factory made gun.
 
At this stage of the game, I do not recommend doing either of the things you mentioned.

The side to side location of the hammer to the nipple is easily adjusted by changing the depth of the small areas in the lock mortise to allow the top or the bottom of the lock to sit slightly deeper than it now does.
It doesn't take much wood removal to make a big difference so, I recommend using a scraping technique. In other words, using the sharp edge of a chisel held almost 90 degrees to the wood surface, scrape it back and forth on the surface that needs to be deeper. It will only remove small amounts of wood so this takes a while to do. Keep inserting and removing the lock while checking the position of the hammer to check on the need to remove more wood.

As I said, it doesn't take a lot of wood removal to make a difference. For instance, I've had several factory made rifles that had a similar problem with the hammer/nipple alignment. Just scraping off the stock finish that they sprayed onto the lock mortise surfaces was enough to fix the problem.

People buy these factory made kits with the idea that they can just slap the parts together and everything will line up. This rarely happens.
It always takes a bit of trimming and fitting of the lock, butt plate, side plate and sometimes the barrel in addition to the normal sanding and finishing the outside of the stock to build one of these "kits" into something that looks as good or better than a factory made gun.
Taking off wood in this instance would make the problem worse unless I were to take wood off of the barrel slot to move the entire barrel. I thought about shimming the entire lock out a little, but am loath to do that as it sits pretty flush with the stock as is. I was actually surprised at the lack of wood work I have had to do so far. Pretty much everything fit nicely except for the trigger guard. Still have a lot of sanding to do to flush everything up, but so far it's been great other than this hammer issue. I'm going to check it with a cap when I get home today. Thanks for all the replies!
 
I did NOT say the barrel should be moved.

I was talking about the small areas inside the cavity where the lock sits. They will be about 3/32 to 1/8 inch below the face of the surface that the mortise (cavity) is cut into.

There are several of these surfaces that support the lock plate. One larger area that usually goes under the front of the lock. One area at the rear of the lock and several small ones that are located in other areas.
 
I've done both (heated/bent hammer-left it alone). I've experienced no performance difference so my 2 cents is leave it unless it fails to perform to your liking ...You can always adjust later.
Good luck and have fun!
 
I did NOT say the barrel should be moved.

I was talking about the small areas inside the cavity where the lock sits. They will be about 3/32 to 1/8 inch below the face of the surface that the mortise (cavity) is cut into.

There are several of these surfaces that support the lock plate. One larger area that usually goes under the front of the lock. One area at the rear of the lock and several small ones that are located in other areas.
Sorry for the confusion I was the one suggesting moving the barrel. If I remove wood from that area you suggest it will move the hammer in the wrong direction. So I'm left with either shimming out the lock or finding a thin washer to shim out the hammer or bending the hammer. Still need to check it with a cap
 
So the hammer barely touches the side of the cap not even enough to pull the cap off of the nipple when I pull it back. I think I'll roll with it as is and adjust later if I have issues. Thanks for all of your responses!
 
I've seen very few factory rifles with hammers offset enough to prevent them from being used as-is. If it reliably pops the cap and fires it's probably best to leave it alone. I've owned one or two that were off by a speck or even barely missing the side of the nipple; but they functioned very well indeed. I'd draw the line at opening the hammers nose cup and then only if it was truly problematic.
 
Sorry for the confusion I was the one suggesting moving the barrel. If I remove wood from that area you suggest it will move the hammer in the wrong direction. So I'm left with either shimming out the lock or finding a thin washer to shim out the hammer or bending the hammer. Still need to check it with a cap
I guess you don't understand what the idea behind removing some wood is so I'll try to explain.

Currently the lock should be positioned by several small surfaces inside the cavity the lock sits in. When the lock is seated on these, they all position the angle of the face of the lockplate. Let's say they position the lock plate so it is in a vertical position with respect to the stock and barrel.

If a small amount of wood is removed ONLY from the locating surfaces that are above the center of the lock while the surfaces below the center of the lock plate are left unchanged and you then install the lock plate so it rests on ALL of the surfaces, the top of the lock plate will be tilted closer to the barrel so, the whole lock plate will be tilted inward at the top and the hammer will end up moving closer to the center of the barrel.

If a small amount of wood is removed ONLY from the locating surfaces that are below the center of the lock while the upper surfaces are left unchanged, the lock plate will be tilted outward at the top so the hammer will end up further out, away from the center of the barrel.

Because the hammer nose if further away from the horizontal center of the lock than the lockplate is wide, a little tilting of the lockplate inward or outward will move the hammer nose a lot more than the edges of the lock plate moves. (Think about holding a yardstick in your hand. Rotating your hand just a little bit, moves the end of the yard stick a lot.) This is why removing just a little of the supporting material will move the hammer nose sideways a lot more than just the amount of wood that is removed.
 
I guess you don't understand what the idea behind removing some wood is so I'll try to explain.

Currently the lock should be positioned by several small surfaces inside the cavity the lock sits in. When the lock is seated on these, they all position the angle of the face of the lockplate. Let's say they position the lock plate so it is in a vertical position with respect to the stock and barrel.

If a small amount of wood is removed ONLY from the locating surfaces that are above the center of the lock while the surfaces below the center of the lock plate are left unchanged and you then install the lock plate so it rests on ALL of the surfaces, the top of the lock plate will be tilted closer to the barrel so, the whole lock plate will be tilted inward at the top and the hammer will end up moving closer to the center of the barrel.

If a small amount of wood is removed ONLY from the locating surfaces that are below the center of the lock while the upper surfaces are left unchanged, the lock plate will be tilted outward at the top so the hammer will end up further out, away from the center of the barrel.

Because the hammer nose if further away from the horizontal center of the lock than the lockplate is wide, a little tilting of the lockplate inward or outward will move the hammer nose a lot more than the edges of the lock plate moves. (Think about holding a yardstick in your hand. Rotating your hand just a little bit, moves the end of the yard stick a lot.) This is why removing just a little of the supporting material will move the hammer nose sideways a lot more than just the amount of wood that is removed.
Holy manure I feel dumb! You'll have to forgive me I'm a former Marine so I'm a little dense. Thanks for clearing that up! I'll get my chisel now. (Face palm emoji)
 
Hello Danno,

If it shoots, I'd leave it alone.
By clearing the bottom portion of the lock recess ever so slight,
your lock will tip and align the hammer to the nipple.
I wouldn't be afraid to heat the hammer for bending, but don't do it in place.
Remember it would be a guessing game once removed from the rifle as to how much to move it.
I'm not sure about the Spanish rifles, but I know the Italian's are dead soft.

AntiqueSledMan.
 
I have bent several hammers to get perfect alignment. It’s not hard; put the bottom end of the hammer, well padded, in a vise, draw it up very tight, place a large crescent wrench (jaws parallel to hammer nose), pad w/ leather or brass. Tighten as much as possible, and gently push the wrench handle in the direction you need. Heating it doesn’t help and isn’t needed.
 
Thanks again all! I ended up shaving a bit of wood off of the bottom of the lock cavity as Zonie and AntiqueSledman explained above. This moved the Hammer over enough so that it does not rub even with a cap on. Now on to getting the ramrod spring to fit! Thanks again all!
 
No need to heat it to bend it that small amount.

IMO, it needs nothing. Maybe you are applying a too critical eye to your own work?

As long as it clears the nipple and the cap along the edge it's not a functionality problem.
 

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