Trade Gun

[Buck Conner]

Here is an original example of a very late flintlock English trade gun. Produced by Parker Field in 1870. The metal finish on both barrel and lock during this late time are as the pictures show.

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That's a nice Parker Field trade gun, it survived in good condition. Most of these guns were used up in short order (planned by the traders), taking care of them was far and few between. Thank you for sharing these pictures, I enjoy NW Guns in this condition.

Charley Hanson would be knocking on your door with cash in hand...


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[Notchy Bob]

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You folks showing different trade guns, bore sizes and misc. other parts is neat to see. Now I'll throw one in that will make you scratch your heads. Charles Hanson tried to buy this one for the museum back in 1975 (couldn't make a deal with family).

A North West gun in 50 caliber smoothbore, an early one often seen in gun shows, new condition apparently unused found in Denver Colorado area seen for several years. Very plain but sturdy walnut stock, antique rust blued barrel and lock, trigger guard stained dark with time, brass dragon and buttplate nailed on like many of the originals. Hanson thought it was built for a woman or a young man.

The family said they would be contacted by collectors several times a year about selling this gun. Last we heard it had gone to Quebec to a new home in the 80's.

Enjoy the reproduction by Doc White 2021, this NW trade gun will be sold by Track of the Wolf very soon. A GRRW Collectors Association firearm [GRRW.CA GBW NW 01].

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That's .50 caliber smoothbore? How odd! What were the dimensions (overall length, LOP, barrel length)? Was the lock of reduced size, also?

I believe Tortuga Trading has a 3/4 size musket for sale, shown on their website. I believe it is Danish. I'll try to find it and post a link. The point being that gunmakers of the past could be whimsical, and produce a gun that doesn't quite fit with our preconceptions.

I have read that Henry Leman was contracted to produce a run of very large bore trade muskets at one point. As I recall, he protested, on the grounds that these were not what the end-users (native people) would want, but I think he made them anyway. I don't know if any of these have survived.

Maybe we should start a new thread, on atypical trade guns...

Notchy Bob

 

[Buck Conner]

That's .50 caliber smoothbore? How odd! What were the dimensions (overall length, LOP, barrel length)? Was the lock of reduced size, also?

I'll have to get that information for you Bob. Track of the Wolf has that gun, now getting ready to list it along with a GRRW.CA Leman trade rifle and an original Leman full stock rifle.

Maybe we should start a new thread, on a typical trade guns...

That sounds like a fun subject bob, I'm in.

 

[toot]

just when did the SERPENT / DRAGON first come in to use?

 

[plmeek]

just when did the SERPENT / DRAGON first come in to use?

If you are asking about the serpent sideplate on the Northwest trade gun, S. James Gooding thought 1749. The earliest dated NW trade gun with the classic serpent sideplate is in the Museum of the Fur Trade collection and marked on the tail of the lock "WILSON/51" for 1751.

Serpent and dragons were used on civilian and military arms at least a hundred years earlier or the mid-1600s.

 

[stank]

I believe Curly G’s locks had a CAST sitting fox on the face of the lock and a star stamped on the inside of the lock. I don’t know if North Star West also did this

 

[toot]

If you are asking about the serpent sideplate on the Northwest trade gun, S. James Gooding thought 1749. The earliest dated NW trade gun with the classic serpent sideplate is in the Museum of the Fur Trade collection and marked on the tail of the lock "WILSON/51" for 1751.

Serpent and dragons were used on civilian and military arms at least a hundred years earlier or the mid-1600s.

thank you so much for the reply. yes that is what I meant. amazing it started that many years back? just what is the significand's of it? I know that it is a SERPENT / DRAGON, but what does it imply? odd that it wound up on weapons. maybe because ST.GEORGE SLAYED A DRAGON? the gun could do the same. maybe not because the indigenous people never heard of him. I am rely curious.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Toot There was allways a link of guns & dragons Most Matchlocks have dragons , the split part that holds the Match or burning cord being called' Match' it's usually shaped to a dragons head. I file them on muzzles & breeches some times ..St George clearly didn't like dragons they are very misunderstood creatures .
Regards Rudyard

 

[tenngun]

thank you so much for the reply. yes that is what I meant. amazing it started that many years back? just what is the significand's of it? I know that it is a SERPENT / DRAGON, but what does it imply? odd that it wound up on weapons. maybe because ST.GEORGE SLAYED A DRAGON? the gun could do the same. maybe not because the indigenous people never heard of him. I am rely curious.

It’s not a dragon but a sea serpent. Whimsical side plates got common in the seventeenth century. Many guns made for shipboard use had a sea serpent as a side plate. These were the first trade guns, and somehow Indians buying these guns came to regard these as a mark of quality or usefulness. Makers responded and the side plate was born

 

[griffiga]

I guess my question should have been white, blued or "browned" ??? I don't know that I have ever seen a ML firearm in the "blue"..

My understanding was that "blueing" didn't actually come out until just prior to the American Civil War. Most earlier guns would have been "browned" or polished in the white (shiny). If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.